The “Water Cooler” is a feature on Claycord.com where we ask you a question or provide a topic, and you talk about it.
The “Water Cooler” will be up Monday-Friday in the noon hour.
A new law that took effect in California this year maintains that police officers, including trainees, be legally authorized to work in the United States while abiding by federal laws and regulations. The law, however, removed the requirement that peace officers be citizens or permanent residents of the United States.
QUESTION: Do you think you should have to be a citizen of the United States to be a police officer in the United States?
Talk about it….
60 comments
Yes!
Yes.
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Citizenship for peace officers is a fundamental requirement and commitment to the nation, its law, and the community of service.
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To be or have an illegal immigrant as a police officer would be PURE hypocrisy.
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There are legal and illegal immigrants. I’m an immigrant I have never been the US illegally. When I wanted to come here as an au pair, I had to apply for a visa. I applied for a visitors visa, which my au pair family suggested. However, it was not approved by the American Embassy in Copenhagen. They said they knew I would be getting paid, thus did not qualify for a visitors visa. I was told to apply for a green card, it would delay my departure by several month, and I was very disappointed. However, it was a blessing, I had by green card before I got here, thus didn’t have to worry about having to go back to Denmark after 1 year. After you get your green card you can apply for citizenship after 5 years, or 3 if you are married to an american citizen. Until 9/11 your green card never expired, now it expire every 10 years. As a green card holder, you can apply for any job, except government jobs, not sure if it is just federal or local, you pay taxes, you pay into social security and medicare. You cannot vote. Some countries allow dual citizenship. Switzerland always did, Denmark does now but it fairly recent last 20-15 years. Based on this information and all the people I know that have been here on a green card for years, I don’t see any reason why the should not be allowed to apply for a job as a police officer. Of course when you become you citizen you have to swear that you will uphold the laws of the US and be loyal. Meaning if there would be a war between US and your native country you would support the US.
EXIT 12A,
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Currently, in the State of California and the State of Illinois, only those individuals who are “resident aliens/legal aliens” are able to serve as Peace Officers, “non-resident aliens/illegal aliens” are not eligible to hold the position of Peace Officer.
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We’re not on a good trajectory in California with this expansion of rights for “resident aliens/legal aliens,” and in some cases the expansion of rights for “non-resident aliens/illegal aliens.” First, it was allowing “non-citizen/resident aliens” to serve as attorneys, and now Peace Officers. Then the San Francisco Unified School District began allowing both “resident aliens/legal aliens” and “non-resident aliens/illegal aliens” to vote in school board elections. While the California State Legislature passed bills that were vetoed by Governor Brown, that would’ve allowed “resident aliens/legal aliens” to serve on special district, city, county, and state government boards failed to become law, and their attempt at allowing “resident aliens/legal aliens” to serve on juries also failed to become law, thanks to a veto by Governor Brown. The fact that the California State Legislature and the San Francisco Unified School District (voting) has moved in this direction is quite concerning.
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Yes, I know that.
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Citizenship should still be required to be a peace officer.
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Resident aliens are here with proper authorization… illegal aliens are not.
EXIT 12A,
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I left out that “non resident aliens/illegal aliens” would also have been able to serve on appointed local and state boards and commissions had the bill not been vetoed by Governor Brown.
Let them take the tests if they pass yes, fail no. How hard is that?
Ups You can be legal and not a citizen, that was the point I was trying to make.
Of course I am not talking of illegal aliens. Or any of them that can’t speak English. Thanks Hanne However if there was an educated English speaking person amongst the hundreds of thousands that have slipped through the border recently and could pass a citizenship test they could be considered.
Playing to a tough crowd today.
Ha, ha. Now you know how I feel. Yet I still post, and in the past few weeks I have had customers that recognized my name, and they were very kind, and said they liked my post. Don’t know if they agreed or disagreed, don’t really care. The point of this blog is to be able to disagree, hepefully without becoming disagreeable. As I posted you cannot apply for a citizenship until you have been here for a certain amount of years. I believe the US is fairly liberal on that point, other countries are must stricter.
If you don’t think this country is being taken over by globalists, and non Americans, this should tell you something. Most cops don’t even know the constitution or how to respect our rights as it is.
I’m going to write to both my Congressman and Senator to see if we can allow excons to become law-enforcement officers. Social Justice and hugs are what is needed today.
I remember when “UN Troops” on our streets was considered ‘conspiracy theory’.
This is Ridiculous and all responsible should be Tried for Treason.
Hell, I think only land owners should be able to vote.
Not even that. You have to pay income tax to vote and you cannot be getting governmental assistance (MY tax money). It is insane that people who only take and do not produce get to vote to give themselves MY money!
You do realize that permanent residents pay taxes, they work, they often own businesses and employ people.
I believe you should have to be a citizen of the United States in order to owner property here (just like China, Russia, and several other countries).
I think you should live in the US to be able to own property here. Again read my post on difference between living here as a legal resident, but not a citizen. If you live and work here there’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to buy a house, condo or similar. However, I think the problem is many buy investment properties, but live in anothe country. I don’t know the law for buying real estate if you are a foreigener, perhaps someone can clarify what the law is.
That does not work. So, when you move from the US, you are forced to sell your house? Only the citizen requirement makes any sense. MUST be a citizen to buy property. That is commonsense, so dems will never go for it.
The real estate market would collapse if only citizens could buy property. Again I make the distinction between illegals and legal residents. I have friends from many different countries, Iran, Germany, Czech Republic, Holland, Poland, Sweden and of course Denmark, usually they plan to stay here forever. Of course several of those friends are citizens, not all though. They are of course all legal and a contributing member of society.
Or you just inadvertently discover a way to solve the housing crises.
No citizen of a foreign nation should have license to arrest, detain, or in any way coerce a soverign citizen of the United States, while on U.S. soil. Period!
If a person is not willing (or capable) of becoming a citizen, how can they swear, with honesty and integrity, the Police Officer’s Oath? I say, They cannot.
The California police officer’s oath states, “I, (employee name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California.”
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Concur… with emphasis.
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ENLISTED SOLDIERS
Enlisted Soldiers are the backbone of the Army, responsible for carrying out orders and ensuring the success of their unit’s mission. Here are the requirements to become an enlisted Soldier:
Age: Between 17-35 years old
Medical, Moral, Physical: Medically and physically fit, and in good moral standing
Citizenship: A U.S. citizen or permanent resident with a valid Green Card
Education: A high school graduate or equivalent
Test Score: A minimum score on the Army’s placement exam
OATH OF ENLISTMENT
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
(Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
But foreign nationals can currently become citizens by joining the military.
Joining the military should be a requirement for citizenship, for those who are 18-25 years old. Wouldn’t it be nice to see those who wish to be citizens arrive here & actually contribute something rather than just hopping onto the welfare wagon?
As a veteran, I approve of the concept of using service in the military as a pathway to citizenship for people who are here legally. I am also fine with people who are here legally serving as sworn officers. My only concern is politicians and public official who pretend that there is no distinction between people who are illegal aliens and those who are here legally.
The requirement to join a police dept. should be the same as the requirement to join the US military. That is, they must be a citizen of the United States. If they are not a US citizen, they must have a U.S. Permanent Resident Card. They must be able to speak, read, write, and understand English fluently, possess a valid passport, and authorized to work in the United States. They should also have a basic understanding of our history, culture, and the US Constitution, and swear to defend and uphold the laws of the land.
In the last 50 years, the qualifications and standards to become a police officer have been lowered in order to hire more women and minorities. That is not to imply that women and minorities are incapable of doing the job, because it has been proven that they are indeed capable of doing the job. But because they have lowered the qualifications, too many corrupt and bad police officers are slipping through the cracks. Most police officers are good cops, and become a police officer for the right reasons. If anything, the qualifications should be higher.
Your post makes a lot of sense.
DAWG
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I totally agree with your first paragraph.
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But I disagree that somehow 50 years ago there was no police corruption. As a matter of fact there was plenty of corruption going way back. So I think for as long as there is a Police bad apples have been getting trough the cracks.
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I also fail to see what specific qualifications would have been lowered to admit more minorities and women to the Police force that would allowed corrupt and bad officers to slip through the cracks?
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I know you try to say that women and minorities have been proven to be capable of doing a good job but you still link their admission to the Police force to corruption. So why?
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I do agree that the overwhelming majority of officers are doing an excellent job under very difficult conditions. But it is important for the departments to be open and transparent. I think for too long a false “code of silence” to protect the bad apples has harmed many departments.
JWB, thanks for responding to my post, but I didn’t say police corruption started 50 years ago. I said that’s when they lowered the qualifications to become a police officer. It was in the 1970s when they began hiring based on race and gender, instead of capability, competence, fitness, and experience. They also changed the written test to make it easier. Consequently, lowing the qualifications only allowed for more bad people to apply, and be accepted for the job. There was a time when a lot of police agencies required a college education, and candidates had to be of a minimum height and weight.
Thanks DAWG, I still have a hard time to understand why you think that either a college education or minimum height and weight requirements would provide safeguards against possible corruption?
Geez Dawg… I thought all you said about police candidates was that when the police departments lowered qualifications it “only allowed for more bad people to apply, and be accepted for the job” I had no idea you actually said the college educated & more physically fit applicants could not be corrupted!
I thought you just added those as an example of the higher qualifications the PD’s formerly required.
Thank Goodness JWB is here to tell everyone what we’re all “really” saying!
Since posting the actual quotes from the thread obviously violates this site, let’s try it this way:
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Jellyfinger do you agree or disagree with DAWG’s original view that lowering the qualifications allowed for corrupt Police officers to slip through the cracks?
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If you agree please cite the specific qualifications that were lowered which caused corrupt Police officer to slip through the cracks?
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I’m waiting ….
I did reply. I guess I got moderated into silence. Just tell me what I’m really thinking…. or keep waiting, yeah…. do that.
Only American Citizens can be Sworn Officers of the Law with the legal authority to arrest citizens.
There is no such thing as a “good” politician.
Want to make America Great again? Remove every politician from every elected office and let the people of America manage the dealings of the people of America.
Do you have to be a US citizen to serve in the armed forces? The US military doesn’t think so. Use the same methods and rules, this could be a path to citizenship for people that want to serve and prove their commitment to this country.
“…while abiding by federal laws and regulations…” Isn’t being a permanent resident or citizen the only way to abide by federal law and regulations? And aren’t those the only legal requirements that must be taken into account when deciding if someone is legally authorized to work in the United States?
We all know that fast food and retail stores hire and pay people under the table and don’t check those requirements.
The only difference between a United States citizen and anyone else, it seems, is the ability to vote.
There should be rights and privileges awarded based on legal status. Federal regulations should be above State regulations.
Europe has some good ideas on how to get people to become legal or leave.
Any big corporation do not hire illegals. When I first worked for Macy’s many years ago (I have worked for them off and on 4 times over decades) I had to prove I was a permanent resident. Read my posts. Those that hire illiegals are small businesses. When I worked for the home care agency, we were licensed by the state of California to serve medicare and medical patients. If we had been found to send illegals to do homecare we would have lost the licensing and other professional credits. Not worth the risk.
@Hanne
Sure, tell that to Ronald the Clown because they do hire them. Many big name companies DO NOT use E-verify, which if I recall correctly, it is required by law. Many times fake or stolen social security numbers are provided. Perhaps some companies don’t do it on purpose but it does happen. Your experiences are not the norm.
Yes!
NOT illegal aliens,and also,the fake media needs to stop calling illegal aliens”immigrants,that reps hate immigrants” no they dont,they hate rule breaking illegal aliens.
You should have to be a citizen for any rights or jobs!
That would totally ruin the economy. Think it through, have many are here, on a political asylum. How far back would you go, when the Irish came over, or the Germans? You cannot apply for citizenship until you have been here a number of years. Most people that come here do not have enough money to wait the required 5 years to apply for a citizenship. Being legal to work here, yes that I agree with. There are different kinds of visa, currently there are immigrants from Afghanistan, they have a special work permit, one young lady I know, can work here, she cannot leave the US until her permanent residence status is approved, if she were to leave she would not be allowed back in. Back in the sixties when I lived back East I knew a Danish girl, her visa was only good as long as she worked for a Danish Company in the US. She was a secretary.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/89th-congress/house-bill/2580?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%222580%22%2C%222580%22%5D%7D&s=1&r=1
“H.R.2580 – An Act to amend the Immigration and Nationality Act, and for other purposes”
Also known as the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965
https://history.house.gov/Historical-Highlights/1951-2000/Immigration-and-Nationality-Act-of-1965/
Why would I ever want a non-citizen arresting a citizen? You have got to be kidding me?
Is this even a question! did everyone take a stupid pill! E-verify….in order to uphold the law you actually have to adhere to the law. Illegal, undocumented, or green card holder should not be allowed to enforce law in any country but their own. Go try to do this in any other country and you will disappear never to be seen again.
I most strenuously disagree with allowing aliens to serve as sworn Peace Officers. I do support Green Card holders being allowed to work here, but only citizens should be allowed to exercise Oeace Officer powers. No exceptions!
Executive Order 11935
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/executive-order-11935-citizenship-requirements-for-federal-employment
At a deep, subconscious level, many immigrants don’t understand the freedoms intended by our founding fathers.
Schwarzenegger is a good example – the son of a Nazi – who at the first sign of a constitutional crisis declared “Screw your freedoms.”
So yes, anyone serving as a peace officer should be a citizen to ensure they understand and are loyal to our constitution. Anyone serving a higher office should be native born.
No, you shouldn’t have to be a citizen.
This is a country of immigrants. Founded by immigrants. I think this is the best country in the world. Do we have issues? Yes, every country does. So does everyone to some extent. If you left your country seeking a better life here in this country then you have the right to help make this country the best. Hanne very clearly spells out the difficulty becoming a citizen. Getting a good job is necessary. People are good or bad based on who they are not what their heritage is. I think that people who have left an oppressive country and come here would work very hard to keep this country free.
It’s not about people being “good or bad”. It’s about people coming from a heritage with values that are different than ours.
Many countries don’t have the same tradition of civil rights. In their country the collective is more important than the individual.
These attitudes are deeply ingrained and unconscious. That’s why when the “pandemic” hit certain groups had no problem wearing masks and getting the jab. In hindsight if every American had had this collectivist mind-set, we might not have a country right now.
I bet everyone would except a good immigrant being a cop rather than a bad citizen.
Man in Brown, My friend from Czech Republic bares that out. He defected in 1968, when he was here with the Czech olympic rowing team. However, his English leaves a little to be desired, said somewhat tonque in cheek. He has a masters degree in business, and as he says I write and read English perfectly.
Apparently none of you have ever had an encounter with a Mexican Cop.
yeah I have. If you don’t bribe them off, they’ll call their cousins who are also cops and you’ll have to bribe them all.
I have in Mexico in one of the two times I have ever been there.
If “We the People”, wish to take back our country, we will need to clean out every single agency and bureaucracy that has been “infiltrated” over a number of years by individuals attempting to erode our “Rule of Laws”. These people must not be able to “remove” laws that exist according to our Constitution, and that includes the requirement of citizenship for certain areas of employment within our government!
I certainly would not as an expat, expect to be employed in sensitive positions in another country?
What a mess these “selected” representatives have made of a once amazing U.S., was it by accident or was it carefully planned, I know what I believe?!
On another note, there is.much talk about “term limits” instead of political careers that last decades, I am a firm supporter of term limits and I would go a step further to make sure that a politician or even other “public servants”’, as well as their staff, be throughly audited to make sure there are no shenanigans going on.; any person who wishes to apply to become public servants should be willing to carefully scrutinized, that is one way to keep from going into
government positions and not leaving as multi-millionaires?
Term litmits don’t really work. Most just rotate from another position within the government to another. Also if there’s a politician that is doing a good job why would we want to replace him/her? What does heavy scrutinized mean? It use to be if you smoked a little pot years ago, were divorced or cheated on your wife, you were out, Trump changed that, and I guess so did Clinton (not the pot smoking, but they other two) and I did think they were too stricts, especially pot smoking and divorce. However, there is still so much scrutiny that probably some decided not to run, because they don’t want their family and themselves being put under a magnifying glass. Supposedly that kept Colin Powell from ever running for president, his wife was against it.
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