The “Water Cooler” is a feature on Claycord.com where we ask you a question or provide a topic, and you talk about it.
The “Water Cooler” will be up Monday-Friday at noon.
Today’s question:
QUESTION: Should lawmakers or parents decide if a child should be vaccinated against COVID-19? Tell us why you answered the way you did.
Talk about it….
If a safe vaccine will ever be developed, which is still uncertain, and if children need to be immunized (not sure, since they can’t get sick?), then the same rules should apply to this vaccine as apply to all others (MMR, polio, tetanus, etc.)
Children can and are getting sick, and are among many of the COVID19 casualties. That seems to have been an unfounded myth that they weren’t.
Children aren’t in any particular danger from this disease even if they get it. The “casualties” you speak of are children with serious comorbidities, those children are at risk even from a common cold. Children’s immune systems don’t function like adult immune systems and, frankly, their immune system is proving to be more efficacious fighting this virus than any vaccine they could hope to develop. Don’t mess with something that is working.
@Silva
I was wondering about that. I keep seeing stories claiming that young children don’t have the receptors that this virus attacks, but then I see other stories that say children are getting sick. There is too much conflicting “information” out there. So once all the facts are in, then a parent can make an informed decision about a vaccine. Until then, it’s target practice in the dark.
Silva, define “many”. Almost nobody under 20 has died of this virus. In this age demographic it’s actually true that the flu is worse. (Definitely not true overall, but for children, it is.)
Children can get sick people. Yes, they may not get as sick or show any symptoms at all, that is why they are so dangerous. They can spread it like crazy without knowing it, this seems to be the part of this virus that some just can’t seem to comprehend The extremely sick are an entirely different issues than those walking around feeling fine infecting others.
Parents!
No Politician gets to decide what gets put into my child or me. My spouse and I will make the decision for our children. We accept other vaccines because we trust them, because we understand them. If we do not, they will not get it.
Just because 2 people have sex and have a baby doesn’t mean they are automatically smart enough to make life or death decisions.
@Anon, just because some politicians are elected to office, doesn’t mean they are automatically smart enough to make life or death decisions.
@dawg
Got em! 👏🏽
When I was a kid they used to give shots and vaccinations at school and my parents didn’t even know it was happening.
So you didn’t have vaccination records?
Should be Parent’s choice like the flu vaccine. Not mandatory!
I think it should be politicians that think the Earth is over-populated.
I dont think it will be a choice…. Its going to come down to everyone getting it regardless of what their wants are…. sadly.
There is not enough information yet, let alone a vaccine. Will it be one and done or will they have to develop a new vaccine every year and hope that they picked the best target each season?
I am not for or against vaccinations, everybody should have the ability to make their own decisions. But, I am against the government handing out mandates, (especially medical mandates) because “they know what’s best and we are too stupid to make our own decisions.”
If they ever come up with a vaccine it will be too new, and there’s no way to know or understand what the consequences may be. I would wait three or four years to see what, if any ramifications may occur, then I will decide whether or not to get a vaccine for myself. As for children, my kid is an adult and can make her own decisions.
This question shouldn’t even exist. It’s obvious whose choice it is. Are lawmakers also doctors now..getting kinda shady
Parents have been prosecuted and have had their children taken away from them for refusing to allow things like cancer treatments…mostly because their religious beliefs conflict with modern science. If you dont want to vaccinate your kids thats fine, but if they get sick, or get someone else sick, you better be prepared for the consequences. If your unvaccinaetd sick child gets my kid sick, I’ll sue you six ways to Sunday.
I completely agree with your views on societal responsibility. Unfortunately, it is extremely difficult to figure out who infected who. Big picture, please be responsible.
@ Dr. Phillips
How would your child get sick if you had your child vaccinated?
Dr. Phillip’s, if you truly are even a doctor, you must know that if you or your child get vaccinated then you should have no concern regarding me or my child not being vaccinated as your so-called immunity should subsequently protect you, right? So get off your high horse threatening others with lawsuits over a bogus argument. Sadly, the vast majority of doctors and nurses are propagandized through the AMA and WHO and subsequently spew their so-called “expertise” regarding health and medicine but truly know nothing about the benefits of nutrition and exercise. You all have been duped and would rather inject someone with poison or give them a potentially dangerous pill as a quick fix and collect your wads of cash from your local BIG drug dealer: BIG Pharma. In other words, worry about your own kids and work on your integrity!
it is truly amazing all these experts here. Thinking that a vaccine for sure would give 100% protection.
Guess they all got their science degrees from Dr. Google but in reality can’t tell a cathode from a nematode.
I agree.
CYN: my granddaughter was born a micro-preemie, at 25 weeks and 1.5lbs. Due to this, she could not get her immunizations on the same schedule as a child born at 40 weeks. There are other reasons children and adults can have immune deficiency’s in which an unvaccinated person can be harmful to be around. I wouldn’t expect ANYONE to listen to 45, but Doctors and Scientists, with testing and results??? No brainer.
If your child is vaccinated and he is around an unvaccinated, sick child, guess what? Your kid won’t get sick. Because your kid is Vaccinated.
If vaccines are effective, then how could an unvaccinated kid get your vaccinated kid sick?
Wow! It’s amazing how many people on here don’t realize that some people can NOT get vaccines for medical reasons, it is the responsibility of the rest of us to keep them safe.
The COVID-19 shot should be mandatory. I will gladly get it, just like how I get the flu shot every year. All you folks should do the same. Anyone who doesn’t get shots are nasty. Y’all ever hear those nasty congested coughs in public? Those are beyond gross.
Not so much the politicians, but the same criteria as MMR, polio, etc. I don’t want a child who’s not vaccinated, because their biological donors have an issue, possibly infecting my classroom. If the vaccine works, make it mandatory.
I just don’t see why it’s necessary. This disease has a death rate of less than 1%, maybe even much lower depending on what testing reveals.
In Contra Costa County, at least, if you get a PCR test the death rate is more like 3%. If you don’t get a PCR, who knows what are your chances.
So you either get the vaccine and protect everyone you come in contact with, or you risk infecting and/or killing others and yourself… for years to come. Hmm.
How could you even possibly be allowed to be around others if you’re not vaccinated?
This disease is not nearly as deadly as you imply. Less than 1% is not “killing everyone.” Cut the drama.
@Bob Food
As of 7:22 pm 5/1, per worldometers.info,
65,766 deaths in US
1,131,280 cases in US
Deaths/Cases= 0.058 or, 5.8% case fatality rate
@Fat Cat:
The problem with your conclusion is that neither the numerator nor denominator are well-defined. The standard of determining death due to COVID is suspicious in nature, and NOBODY knows the total number of infections unless every individual in the US is tested. Your conclusion is relevant to approximately 0.34% of the population. Did you know New York added 3700 deaths to the count, NONE of which had tested positive?
@Rollo
You raise a valid point that the denominator is not well defined. But I repeatedly see the argument that COVID deaths are being hyper-inflated (or as you put it, ” suspicious in nature”). Please provide more than your suspicion, which, isn’t worth much.
Here is a NYT article that shows the total number of reported deaths in NY, from any cause, compared with recent years. Even when subtracting out the deaths specifically attributed to COVID, there are still additional deaths. While many of those may be collateral due to reduced availability or quality of care for other diseases like heart disease, it also suggests that the number of COVID deaths in NY is understated to some degree.
So, yes, while the 5.8% will likely decrease as testing expands and increases the denominator of my fraction, but, trumpeting from the heavens that the death rate is less than 1%, as Bob Foo is repeatedly doing in this forum, is disingenuous at best.
Forgot the link to the article I referenced: N.Y.C. Deaths Reach 6 Times the Normal Level, Far More Than Coronavirus Count Suggests https://nyti.ms/2W7doFy
I believe doctors and scientists should determine who should get the vaccine. It has been shown that children can get it and in rare cases it can be devastating.
I don’t listen to politicians on either side when it comes to science.
Maybe they can also tattoo each recipient to prove receipt of the vaccination. I’m sure there’s some historical model on which to base the implementation of such a plan.
Neck tattoos seem appropriate.
parents, and only parents.
While I am not against most vaccines, this one I will be against, 100%.
This whole COVID-19 situation has been completely blown out of proportion by the News Media and local government alike.
There are too many parties involved to profit from this vaccine while we don’t really know enough about COVID.
The Parents. Its their child so whatever they say goes.
Most politicians are morons but only about 20% of parents are morons…Hmmmmm
How about asking your doctor?
Fred, in medical school curriculum, how many hours are spent on vaccines? First ask your doctor for the package insert, the possible side effects, the ingredients, and to show you what drug trials have proven vaccines are safe.
I promise you they most likely won’t know the answers and probably won’t give you the package insert. And can’t show you a trial that proves they are safe, because there aren’t any.
How about informed consent?
King Gav knows whats best for you. You will comply or you will be contained. Get used to the new California.
Parents! After how Newsom has folded, spindled and mutilated our U.S. Constitutional rights, after the temporary taxes that never went away, after the “If you like your beach you can keep your beach” fiasco, I wouldn’t give the state any more power over anything.
Re: the vaccine itself? If one is ever developed and it is proven to be effective and safe, sure. Just as our son received all the usual vaccinations. But I would not approve of one that has been rigorously tested and evaluated on all age groups.
Anybody remember getting sugar cubes instead of shots?
I remember polio vaccine being delivered on sugar cubes and the smallpox vaccine was delivered by multiple jabs.
Yes, that’s how I got the polio vaccine …
And don’t get me started on walking the gauntlet between the air guns at boot camp
Yes, I remember going to Del Valle HS on an assigned day. It seemed like all our neighbors were there too so maybe they called us in by area. Marked our names off the list and gave us the sugar cubes. I thought it was cool to get a sugar cube. My brother didn’t have to go since he was a polio survivor.
If memory serves me well, everyone gladly went and welcomed a vaccine. I just can’t understand anti- vaxxers.
We all just got taken to the school cafeteria one day at Lafayette Elementary School for the sugar cubes. I don’t think parents were informed beforehand. My mom wasn’t, but she worked with polio afflicted children so she would’ve got it for me one way or the other.
CoCoOld: Someone below already answered better than I can on this, but I’ll add my two bits anyway on the anti-vaxxers as you call them. There is now a huge list of vaccinations required or recommended that did not exist when you took them. There is also a huge increase in autism. It could be there are combinations, or the flooding of the system with too many at once, or the additives for self-life or any number of things where there might be a causal effect. No one really knows, and there is a huge amount of money to suppress any suggestion there is a cause from vaccines. There is also the anti-intellectualism, and that is what make me the most suspicious. The medical industry has weaponized the term anti-vaxxer so well and successfully, that to question vaccines is to immediately subject yourself to ridicule and contempt and even hate like one would expect out of the Spanish Inquisition. I am not an anti-vaxxer as you would call it but the medical establishment would be furious that I even have an open mind.
Yes, I remember getting the sugar cube. It was, however, a very long time in coming with years and years of research, testing, and failed attempts. Sometimes the seasonal flu shot is developed only months before it is rolled out for use to include the strains expected that year. Measles and mumps were uncomfortable, but they didn’t kill you and you developed immunity, naturally.
The supreme court already ruled on this in 1905. They can enforce mandatory vaccinations.
Children aren’t particularly susceptible to contracting it and when they do something like 90 percent of them are asymptomatic. On top of that, current data suggests that children that do test positive aren’t transmitting it to others.
I will fight tooth and nail to NOT give my children a vaccine that will, assuredly, not undergo the same rigorous safety testing most vaccines have to go through. Talk to me after a few years, then we’ll know what the side effects are from the first few batches of guinea pigs who were willing to take the risk.
Wow, that’s a question from left field.
The parents have the only say.
It’ll probably take SCOTUS to finally decide.
We can prevent traffic deaths if we all stop driving. Why are we still driving? Anyone who drives is heartless and wants others to die.
Bob Foo, Excellent analogy!
Makes sense.How far do we go ?
While I completely understand the race to create a vaccine for this god awful virus, at the same time it being so rushed makes me concerned about safety and effectiveness.
Those air guns at boot camp transmitted the Hep C virus.
Heck no! Too soon to come out with a safe, effective vaccine. Remember when Salk did this with his polio vaccine that failed for the first batch he introduced?
And it would be my decision, not the government.
I view my children as people, not property. That said, we are in an era of disinformation like never before. Therefore, we can no longer trust lawmakers or information that appears to come from them. In short, we have to make our own decisions.
The term “anti-vaxxer” is one of those Weaponized terms.
Ironically, the majority who are being wrongly labeled “anti-vaxxers” are really Ex-Vaxxers.
We can’t even have a one size fits all Diet……and yet a vaccine is going to be one size fits all??
Parents all the way, look out for your child. Good luck finding a list of ingredients and side effects from vaccines….the small print. Read it. More people are more cautious of what fuel or oil they put into their vehicles than their temples.
Too Many politicians and HMO are getting financial kick backs from big pHarma……so it’s a total conflict of interest.
Parents will always make the decision but they should take into consideration their children health condition. If a child gets sick easily and is slow recovering then they should give it extra thought. Not everyone has a strong immune system.
Makes sense.How far do we go ?
ZZ what tests? There are no double blind placebo trials done on vaccines.
Ask your Dr. what is in vaccines. They probably don’t even know. Ask for the package insert and then look up the MSDS on those ingredients and see if you want WI-38 or MRC-5 along with aluminum, formaldehyde, human serum albumin, acetone, monosodium glutamate, host cell DNA, bovine albumin, Madin Darby Canine Kidney cell protein, calf bovine serum, injected into your child or yourself.
The drug manufacturers have all been sued for Billions of dollars for knowingly selling drugs that they knew were unsafe or even deadly. That is a fact, look at Vioxx.
You’d have to be an idiot to believe that vaccines are risk free.
You can use big pharma for adverse reactions to drugs but NOT VACCINES. They have been given a free pass with zero liability when it comes to vaccines.
It is not dangerous for virtually all children, so no, it shouldn’t be mandated for kids. You just need adults to man up and get it in sufficient numbers to generate herd immunity.
Parents.