The Water Cooler – Battle Over Girl at Children’s Hospital in Oakland

December 30, 2013 12:00 pm · 156 comments

The “Water Cooler” is a feature on Claycord.com where we ask you a question or provide a topic, and you talk about it!

The “Water Cooler” will be up Monday-Friday in the noon hour.

Most of us have heard about the 13-year-old girl, Jahi McMath, at Children’s Hospital in Oakland who was declared brain dead on Dec. 12 following complications from a tonsillectomy. Jahi remains on life-support while her family tries to find a way to transfer her to a long-term care facility.

What would you do in a situation like this? Would you let your loved one go, or would you keep fighting for him/her even though the doctors are saying there is no chance for recovery?

Talk about it….

{ 156 comments }

1 Anon777 December 30, 2013 at 12:07 PM

I would absolutely want a second opinion, but if all Dr’s agreed, I would let my loved one pass on.

I can understand a mother not wanting to let go, but unless you have money and means to care for this body, you cannot expect taxpayers dollars to pay for it long term.

2 mutts December 30, 2013 at 12:09 PM

They need to give this more time. They botched it up,pretty 13 yr.old girl deserves better. They should know that miracles happen.

3 VikingPrincess December 30, 2013 at 12:11 PM

This child is clinically brain dead and the only thing keeping her alive is the ventilator and her strong heart. If anything, the hospital acted quickly and did not give family enough time to let go. They are moving child until ready, unless testing was incorrect but I would think they had a second unbiased opinion or more before diagnosing. The test is standard across the board.
The parents may feel powerless and untrusting and they did what they felt was right. At least they can let go without feeling like a judge ordered them. Eventually she will pass when her heart gives or a more reasonable amount of time has gone by to let go.
My heart to parents, family, friends and caregivers.

4 TinFoiler December 30, 2013 at 12:13 PM

While it’s undeniably tragic, If it’s a scientific fact that Brain dead is Dead – then they need to say their goodbyes. She has already left her body and is in a better place.
~
Now onto the surgery, The Hospital was damned either way. If they would have denied the surgery and advised for the girl to lose weight, RACISM would have been proclaimed. What sucks is a tonsillectomy IS a not heart surgery by any means, perhaps She wasn’t monitored as close post surgery?
Don’t they still do blood work the day prior to surgery to make sure your blood is clotting? Or have they stopped that in order to save $$$ ?

5 Anon December 30, 2013 at 12:13 PM

My Husband and I had to make a very similar decision with our Daughter. We chose to end life-support. One needs to think about the person on the bed. Are they suffering, are they in pain, what is the most humane thing to do? If it was you what would you want your family to do? While making our decision we also thought of what our Daughters’ life would be like if we didn’t end life-support. Would she ever ENJOY life? Or would she always be in bed? What is the point of keeping someone alive if they are in bed unable to move and most likely suffering? Really, if we didn’t end life-support we were simply making our Daughter live longer for ourselves, not for her.

6 J. December 30, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Donate the organs. Give life to the living.

PS: Anybody going in for surgery: Be sure to stop all NSAIDs at least 21-days before the surgery. NSAIDs (Aspirin, Ibuprofen, Aleve, etc.) cause your blood to thin and make it harder to stop the bleeding during and after surgery. Stop all fish oil, and other herbal supplements too, as they are also blood thinners.

Jahi died from uncontrollable blood loss.

7 So Sad December 30, 2013 at 12:16 PM

This is one of those situations where it’s easier said than done.

I would like to think I could let my child go in peace but I know that if that time came, that decision would not come lightly.

Although it doesn’t appear that this girl will benefit from remaining of life support, I can absolutly understand her parents not being able to let go yet. Perhaps this is part of their grieving process. Maybe once they see there is no hope, they can let her go.

In the meantime, I say allow them to do as they wish. If they need to keep her on life support for a while in order to help themselves cope, then who are we to deny them that?

8 Miss ranchogirl December 30, 2013 at 12:16 PM

They are acting selfishly.
Nobody wants to let go of a loved one. But if there is no brain life left, who would this life support help? Certainly not the girl….but only the family. That is not fair. That is selfish.

9 Barbara December 30, 2013 at 12:30 PM

Well said Anon777

10 The Closer December 30, 2013 at 12:33 PM

Hard to say until put in that position. I tend to agree with #1. Are you keeping the loved one alive for Their sake or yours?

11 Jgirl December 30, 2013 at 12:33 PM

I did just go through this last February. I lost my 17 year old son. It is a horrible thing to go through! I know and trust the doctors at children’s. I saw miracles with my son, but in February we all knew this one was different. It is an awful thing to loose a child. I am still having a hard time. They need to let her go!

12 Chuckie's Wife December 30, 2013 at 12:34 PM

I agree with Anon777. It is an impossibly difficult decision to let your child go. Yet, I would make the organs available, so in death, my loved one would be saving a number of lives.

13 kids December 30, 2013 at 12:39 PM

REMEMBER ,ITS YOUR CHILD, YOUR BABIE, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? just pray,,,

14 Lori December 30, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Agree with Anon 777…..also if I were declared legally dead my family better pull the plug. Not only do I not want to live like that I don’t want my loved ones to take on the burden of paying for my care or for caring for me themselves.

15 Dr. Red December 30, 2013 at 12:46 PM

PULL THE PLUG

16 anonanonagain December 30, 2013 at 1:01 PM

While I find this tragic and think the hospital was negligent and showed no signs of remorse or sympathy, If the medical experts say she is gone, she is gone. Right now it is just a body being kept alive without a soul or mind. I have great sympathy for this mother who is obviously grieving and can’t let go. I have a child and I can’t imagine sending your child in for what seems like a routine surgery and then having them die like this. Let her go……

17 The Mamba December 30, 2013 at 1:22 PM

Anon and Jgirl, I’m very sorry for your losses, I can’t even imagine. As a parent of a very young boy, I would love to say I’d be strong enough to make that decision if the day ever came. It’s an extremely tough situation, especially since Jahi’s family hasn’t allowed the Hospital to tell their side of the story, but thinking you know something that 5 experts don’t is ridiculous and irresponsible.

18 bob December 30, 2013 at 1:25 PM

The Family deserved to keep her until Christmas, but the longer she is on life support, the less viable her useful organs may be. They need to save another child so their tragic loss is not in vain.

19 Cowellian December 30, 2013 at 1:27 PM

It was more than just a tonsillectomy. And I look at this a whole lot differently than I would if it was my child.

20 She's dead because she's fat, Antler said so December 30, 2013 at 1:36 PM

Antler December 28, 2013 at 12:33 AM
Sorry, but I cannot cut the parents nor the child’s primary physician any slack whatsoever. Obese children develop all sorts of major health problems, including the sleep apnea underlying the danger of having enlarged, infected tonsils. Caring parents would have sought dietary advice long ago so that the surgery could have been avoided, and a responsible physician would have insisted on that course of dietary treatment.

If the parents’ motive for the current debacle were only to win a lawsuit so as to collect damages, etc., they could pursue that tack against the physician, surgeons, and hospital RIGHT NOW, but without disgracefully exploiting the brain-dead body of their child. Rather, they seem to be going for the whole package…..future appearances on TV shows, profits from book sales, getting donations to a trust fund, receiving other sorts of material gifts from people who pity them, and so forth.

And as for the role of the Catholic religion and hospital in this sad matter: let’s just ponder what it means to pray, “God’s will be done”. If one believes such religious dogma is true, then it would seem that God’s will has BEEN done and that now we have fanatic sacrilege being committed by the parents and by those who defend the parents’ behavior.

21 TinFoiler December 30, 2013 at 1:57 PM

Well, She is being moved to a long term care facility (which a hospital is not).
There’s no way to comment on this story without sounding cold or heartless.
So it was tonsillectomy + adenoidectomy – Can any RN’s chime in, Do the hospitals still do blood work prior to this surgery?
I know they did mine the day before surgery and that was 20 years ago for a tonsillectomy.

22 An ICU RN December 30, 2013 at 1:58 PM

The poor girl is dead. The ventilator is keeping her organs functioning for now, but human organs do not a human make. The media has really dropped the ball on this one. There could have been some good public education about what brain death truly is. Brain dead is dead. People in comas or persistent vegetative states have (very rarely) woken up. This is not the case, here. There are no more chances to give. An unfortunate outcome, but it is, at this point, assault on a corpse.

My other question is who is paying for all this? Insurance doesn’t pay for care of the dead, so I’m guessing the hospital is eating the costs. And wasting an ICU bed on her. My heart really goes out to her nurses. I know that they’re all under a lot of stress right now.

23 @ anonanonagain #16 December 30, 2013 at 1:58 PM

Why would you think that the hospital was negligent? Do you know that they willfully did something improper or against medical procedure?

While it is tragic that a child is in the condition, without definitive proof against the hospital or the parents allowing their childs pre-exisiting conditions, everyone needs to back off.

I was told that California Law states that when a patient is declared legally brain dead, the hospital has no more responsibility to maintain life support for the patient. I would imagine that this law is in place to prevent a hospital from incurring 100s of thousand of dollars in additional expense for those that “can let go of a loved one”.

24 mama December 30, 2013 at 1:59 PM

agree with Antler, sad, but true…

25 VikingPrincess December 30, 2013 at 2:02 PM

Would not assume negligence right away, as there are some factors we dont know and some in media not considered in this post: first – Bleeding is a known complication to the surgery, she was overweight and the procedure was actually more than a tonsillectomy, she was being treated for obstructive sleep apnea (OSA). Her age is a plus but OSA and obesity increase risk for bleeding problems.
The part that is not addressed is what generated the test for her being brain dead and how it was handled. She was tested fairly early so there could be reasons behind that.
If the hospital self initiated before talking to family this is where the problem may have started…
Did family initiate request or was it some cost driven policy and procedure? Testing a child for brain death would make any neurosurgeon ask a few questions first because they have to give the news. No one enjoys it. It is painful for all involved.
Either way, I think the family should have been fowarned, educated and discussion of options related to what they wanted to do if found positive for being brain dead occurs. In that case, even if they step back from the initial decision at least all tried their best and it would be mentioned in the press.
If that WAS done, the press has some explaining to do…

26 CLAYCORD.com December 30, 2013 at 2:02 PM

Here’s an update:

Children’s Hospital Oakland will be allowed take 13-year-old Jahi
McMath off of life support at 5 p.m. today barring a last-minute legal
maneuver or a transfer to another facility by the girl’s family, a hospital
spokesman said.
The family of Jahi, an eighth-grade student at the E.C. Reems
Academy of Technology and Arts in Oakland, has said that they’re trying to
find another facility that would accept Jahi and try to keep her alive, but
Children’s Hospital spokesman Sam Singer said the family and their attorney,
Christopher Dolan, haven’t told the hospital of any facility that will take
her.
Singer said Children’s Hospital told Jahi’s family that the girl
could be transferred to another facility provided certain conditions are met
but that so far the family hasn’t found another place for her.
Dolan and Omari Sealey, Jahi’s uncle, who is a spokesman for her
family, couldn’t be reached for comment this morning.
Jahi’s mother, Nailah Winkfield, said in a posting on the website
GoFundMe.com on Sunday that one facility that had been expected to accept
Jahi had backed out but “we still have a chance at one more facility so let’s
pray.”
As of 11 a.m. today, the website had collected $22,600 in
contributions to help pay the cost of transferring Jahi to another facility.
Jahi went to Children’s Hospital on Dec. 9 for what her family
said was supposed to be a routine tonsillectomy to cure a sleep apnea
problem.
However, doctors said the surgery was complex, and Jahi suffered
complications in the days after the procedure. She was declared brain dead on
Dec. 12.
Alameda County Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo granted Jahi’s
family a temporary restraining order requiring Children’s Hospital to keep
Jahi on life support, but last Tuesday he said the hospital had provided
convincing evidence that the girl was brain dead and could remove her from
life support at 5 p.m. today unless Jahi’s family was granted a stay by a
higher court.
Singer said, “The ball is now in the family’s court and we hope
that they can come to peace with the tragic nature of this case.”
He said, “Jahi is dead and no amount of hope or prayer or medical
procedures will bring her back to life.”

Copyright © 2013 by Bay City News, Inc. — Republication, Rebroadcast or any other Reuse without the express written consent of Bay City News, Inc. is prohibited.

27 Elwood December 30, 2013 at 2:08 PM

It’s not life support, it’s corpse support.

28 Jaded December 30, 2013 at 2:08 PM

From this tragedy, hopefully somegood can come of it. I just hope the Parents do the right thing and donate her organs.

29 VikingPrincess December 30, 2013 at 2:18 PM

Thank you mayor for the update.

This is just terrible. If they raise enough money and still want to continue…wouldn’t it be nice if they could bring her home and have private pay nurses take care of her, highly unlikely a skilled facility will take her, as the ones that can take a vent would think twice..or trice.. Not sure if possible, if patient is dead then no MD order needed for care? Can a licensed nurse treat the patient? What a crazy mess. Wish them luck on this – its just terrible

30 Spanky McSpank December 30, 2013 at 2:25 PM
31 ItIsTime December 30, 2013 at 2:34 PM

Understanding that it may be the most difficult thing they have ever had to do, I hope the family will realize that it’s not God’s will for their daughter’s brain dead body to be kept on machines. I know they want a miracle, but being declared brain dead by multiple doctors is pretty clear. They need to let her go. How many people are focusing time, or donating money, to try to find someplace for her body to be moved? I’ve heard that in order to move it, they actually need to get a coroner to approve as well. She’s already gone – try to find good things in her life that will be memories, instead of trying to save an empty physical vessel.

32 Sad all around but... December 30, 2013 at 2:38 PM

My brother had bad sleep apnea. He lost weight and what do you know, it went away. So while this is a tragic and heartbreaking story. I would of tried everything before surgery. Maybe her mother wasn’t informed that losing weight could help or just too lazy to say no to junk food and yes to exercise. Which unfortunately a lot of parents are.

33 Antler December 30, 2013 at 2:39 PM

…had not planned to comment on this thread, but since someone took the liberty of cutting and pasting my first remarks over on the Whatever thread……please note that I have made several comments, including the following:

“My appreciation to Amy, anonmtz, and others who understand the reason I am outraged at the current posturing of the dead child’s parents. And I agree whole-heartedly with compliments paid to Children’s Hospital of Oakland, which facility and whose surgeons I have no cause to blame. One of our children had surgery there, and I have always thought that this area is blessed to have such a fine hospital.

BCuzItzMercerIsland at #59 and #60….. Please allow me to walk you through this. Obesity is the potential underlying cause of many of such childrens’ OTHER health problems, because it especially impugns the immune system itself, as well as the heart/circulatory system (think blood pressure) and lungs. In this child’s case, it is a known fact that she suffered from sleep apnea, which in and of itself can be life-threatening. When on top of that she had repeated attacks of tonsillitis, those infections would have become increasingly severe (perhaps even encrypted so that her tonsils remained in a swollen state ALL the time, making it especially difficult for her to breathe whenever she lay down).

Your disdain pleases me ever so much Cheers from someone who had her tonsils removed (not “pulled” as you described it) at age 3. That’s neither here nor there to me nor to most people, but you seem to be hanging your medical degree on that nail.

Connie Dobbs at #44…… I most assuredly did NOT write that the little girl “had it coming” because she was fat. Nor did I even imply such a thing. But
I did and do make the point that this situation…..or some other serious, perhaps fatal medical crisis certainly WOULD have come to this young girl (and to other very obese children) SOONER or LATER. Yes, I do blame the parents for her obesity. And I do blame the child’s primary physician as well, especially if the physician had been aware of what I see as a form of child abuse and he still had still done nothing to change the inevitable course of events toward the likelihood of such (for an obese child) risky surgery.”

34 Anon December 30, 2013 at 2:40 PM

“you cannot expect taxpayers dollars to pay for it long term.”

Welfare people do it every day

show me where there people have insurance to pay for her after she was declared dead by the coroner

“If the parents’ motive for the current debacle were only to win a lawsuit so as to collect damages, etc.,”

Of course that is it

There was a ICU bed ready for her because she was high risk before she arrived..this does not happen to a heathly child

Save the ICU bed for a sick child that can he helped

35 VikingPrincess December 30, 2013 at 2:44 PM

@spanky
OK – so if the family does not believe she is dead…And assuming the issue is not about trusting the diagnosis. I saw this only once. In this case the patient was healthy with exception to an unknown aneurysm. She was devout Catholic and had tickets to go to Jerusalem. The morning of her flight her aneurysm blew.
Her beliefs were honored, even when the priest placed sacrament in her mouth (potentially risking aspiration). The family thought she would be that miracle.
The diagnosis of brain death and building bonds with family were well handled. Having her transferred was never discussed because if she was a miracle it was felt she would live after turning off the vent (good arguement, direct?). She was not a miracle and family understood it was Gods plan for her not to go to Jerusalem. Period.
So why do they think she is still alive? If spiritual, then let go and let God.

36 Raider4Life December 30, 2013 at 2:53 PM

I feel so bad for Jahi’s family. They are making it much harder for themselves because they can’t except what has actually happened. Jahi died. As hard as it may be they really need to think about donoting her organs. Another child is waiting for Jahi to save them.

37 Ted K., SuperMax December 30, 2013 at 3:02 PM

Go on a rampage!!!

38 Rob December 30, 2013 at 3:18 PM

Not sure anyone can say for sure what they would do until they are in the situation.

But, it sure does look like they need to let their loved one go.

39 Anon2you December 30, 2013 at 3:18 PM

No right answer here, on one hand it is your child and you want to believe in miracles and no one who has lost a child would argue that the disbelief that they are really gone take time to go away. You still think they will walk through the door someday. Must be horrible and gut wrenching…BUT logically you would think that you would not want to keep holding on to your child if they were truly gone. I would hate to think I would ever do that, I would hope I would have the strength to let go. It happened to my brother, my Mom took him off of life support, he lasted 3 days more and died, so I do have some knowledge of the type of decision this is.

40 dilligafman December 30, 2013 at 3:26 PM

it is sad but she is gone-let her go!

41 Jess December 30, 2013 at 3:33 PM

Such a sad situation. No amount of praying will bring her back. No miracle will occur. Brain dead is dead. I can understand her parents needing a day or two to make their peace with the situation and say their goodbyes. I probably would, too, if I were in their shoes. But we all have to face reality. The machines are maintaining a corpse.

I’m not surprised the family is having a difficult time finding a nursing home that will take her. Nursing homes are not in the business of caring for dead bodies. Nor will insurance companies pay for that. Unless they are independently wealthy, I don’t see it happening. I suspect Children’s Hospital will have to eat the cost of caring for the body ever since her death on December 12. I feel for her family, but that money would have been better spent caring for the living.

42 Silva December 30, 2013 at 3:33 PM

My heart goes out to anyone who has lost a son or daughter. It truly must be everyone’s worst nightmare, mine included. Precious Jahi is gone, and she would probably want to contribute her organs to another child who is suffering. I’ve had to say good-bye to dear ones and it’s awful. Love and prayers to the family.

43 Anon December 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM

” I just hope the Parents do the right thing and donate her organs.”

I doubt it from thsi group.

“Her beliefs were honored, even when the priest placed sacrament in her mouth (potentially risking aspiration).”

This priest should have been arrested for child endangerment.

What type of insurance do they have..is it paying now??

44 Incognito December 30, 2013 at 3:47 PM

If I were the little girl, I would want and hope my parents would let me go… end of story.

45 VikingPrincess December 30, 2013 at 3:52 PM

Lots of talk about organ donation and no mention yet in media if she has been even deemed a viable donor. Nevertheless, if she was it is more of a process than what is covered in “Gray’s Anatomy”. With exception to a few things, there is protocol for potential harvesting that needs implementation asap in order for viable organs to be used.
Many times, depending on the organs, certain treatments and medications are withheld in addition to maintaining a specific body temperature. Example, if renal toxic antibiotics were used to to treat her infections, her kidneys may not be viable and so on.
Either way not mentioned that it has been considered.

46 VikingPrincess December 30, 2013 at 4:00 PM

@anon
That case I mentioned is very old and it was an adult. The responsible parties signed permission and a waiver before the priest was allowed to do last rites like that. She was brain dead. Family was very Catholic and understood risk but still insisted.
Not a child and not same case ;)

47 kasia2001 December 30, 2013 at 4:08 PM

You may be able to block the numbers is you have a newer phone that allows call blocking. If you are receiving calls on your cell, there is a way of blocking calls through Settings. If you do not have this option, a free App called Mr. Number does a great job. Best of luck, I definitely appreciate the annoyance factor.

48 John December 30, 2013 at 4:12 PM

Stand by for the family to make this a racial thing.

49 ChampagneKitty December 30, 2013 at 4:16 PM

This just in: the judge has granted an extension of the temporary restraining order until January 7th.

50 Mom December 30, 2013 at 4:23 PM

I understand completely how this family feels, believe me, but they need to think of the quality of life their little girl would have if she ever did wake up.
It seems they are only thinking of themselves in this predicament and need to realize their daughter would not want this or all the media attention.
Donate her organs and let her live on helping others.

51 Anon December 30, 2013 at 4:27 PM

“I suspect Children’s Hospital will have to eat the cost of caring for the body ever since her death on December 12.”

They do not care about that

@ Viking Princess–thanks for the entire story – make sense now
I appreciate the clarification

52 Kayla December 30, 2013 at 4:38 PM

My 19 year old cousin was struck by a drunk driver on her way to school. As she hit her head, the damage was so bad that she was brain dead also. My aunt waited only 3 days, long enough for the family to get to the hospital to tell my cousin goodbye. Then she was unplugged. My aunt says that the only blessing was the donation of my cousins organs, that was such a comfort to her, that others would live because of my cousin. 35 years later I still choke up and I can’t imagine how Jahi’s mother must feel. I just pray that God touches her heart and she opens her eyes to do the right thing by letting her daughter go in peace.

53 Girlfriend December 30, 2013 at 4:49 PM

The whole thing is just so sad.

It really is too hard to speculate what you would do as a parent. I know I would be laying there next to my baby, holding her hand and listening to her heartbeat….I would not want to let that go.

There is no ‘coming to terms’ with losing a child.

54 Reality Slap December 30, 2013 at 4:51 PM

Denial and desperation can become ugly partners in certain situations and this situation is full of both. Overwhelming grief has this family waiting for a miracle; you don’t wait for miracles, they happen. If the machine is shut off and Jahi McMath is able to draw breath on her own, and stabilize her vitals on her own, then it’s a miracle. It is not a miracle to have a machine emulate life.

55 Anon December 30, 2013 at 4:51 PM

How can she ascend to Heaven if they don’t let her go.

Remember, NOBODY GETS OUT ALIVE

56 anonymom December 30, 2013 at 4:54 PM

So my son had this surgery at the age of 4. He was neither obese or suffering from anything related to dietary intake. We tried Claritin and nose spray and everything we could think of to help remedy his snoring and sleep apnea. This surgery is “elective” but it can make quality of life much better. There are serious risks however with tonsillectomy/adenoidectomy and bleeding is #1. Although it’s a common surgery there are still complications. I would guess that the hospital communicated these risks with the parents and did the proper tests beforehand but we may never know.

I hope that her family can accept that she is gone. It’s been determined by multiple doctors and while it’s deceiving to sit next to a warm body brain death is death. Such an unfortunate issue. I hope that the family can find some closure in all this.

57 Reality Slap December 30, 2013 at 5:02 PM

A Judge has extended the right to remain on life support until January 7th to Jahi McMath. Her family is supposedly working with a facility in New York to have her flown there to remain on life support.

58 Fred December 30, 2013 at 5:26 PM

“My aunt says that the only blessing was the donation of my cousins organs, that was such a comfort to her, that others would live because of my cousin.”

They are good people.

I worked Security at a hospital in the hood & many families refused to let them harvest the organs — the Coroner does not need them. They refused to listen to logic. They didn’t want their baby cut open.

59 TOO BAD December 30, 2013 at 5:43 PM

this story has become about the posters and not the girl/family. As usual, egos rule.

60 Fred December 30, 2013 at 5:51 PM

Stand by for the lawsuit…………………………………

61 anon December 30, 2013 at 5:54 PM

Would love to hear from Always right on this one. It should be really entertaning.

62 mika December 30, 2013 at 5:56 PM

Think of the good all the money being spent on her life support could do for the next child who needs Children Hospital services. Their decision to keep her corpse breathing is uneducated and spiritually wrong on so many levels. Enough is enough. And, yes, I have been in a situation of pulling the plug on a brain dead relation. It is the most unselfish act you can do.

63 JRConcord December 30, 2013 at 6:24 PM

All this circus needs is AL Sharpton.
Donate her organs its the only good that can come from this.
Someone is giving this family bad advice.
I am a donor are you?
Who are you? Where do you stand?
With sadness, Peace and love

64 Anon December 30, 2013 at 6:25 PM

“Their decision to keep her corpse breathing is uneducated and spiritually wrong on so many levels.” So right

Like the football players who kill their friends/girlfriends– you can take Homie out of the hood but not the hood out of Homie,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

65 Bishop Estates December 30, 2013 at 6:52 PM

The agony this family is in none of us can imagine or want to. It may not make sense to us to keep her hooked up because Dr’s have agreed she is brain dead, but her family cannot process what has happened and are waiting for the miracle to happen. Unfortunately it will all come down to money and the family will have to face the unthinkable and hopefully will be able to mourn in peace. Hopefully they can see past their grief and donate her organs and have some peace in knowing she helped another live.
So sad.

66 hmmmmmm December 30, 2013 at 6:53 PM

What I want to know is what was the hospital’s part in the cause of Jahi’s death? Did they not monitor her situation close enough? It seems to me they should have known she was losing excessive amounts of blood.

67 JD December 30, 2013 at 7:45 PM

I think people have confused brain dead with persistent or permanent vegetative state. They are very different. A person in a PVS is alive and has brain activity. A person who is brain dead has no brain activity and it will not re-activate.

Sadly, Jahi is gone.

68 NoMoreFreeRide December 30, 2013 at 7:53 PM

#21 pretty much summed it up!

69 How Dumb December 30, 2013 at 7:55 PM

She is dead unplug the machine, did we learn nothing from the whole Terri Schivao case .Very sad but three weeks is long enough shame on the Judge for continuing to let this circus go on .

70 mika December 30, 2013 at 8:45 PM

I heard on the news tonight that her mom said the girl is responding to her voice and moving.

71 Personal friend of Antler December 30, 2013 at 9:34 PM

This is what I wrote to her today.

Side note @ #20 I pray for your angry soul. This little girl’s soul is probably sweet enough to help you if you simply ask in prayer.

“You have been through the pain of losing your son and I have been through the pain of an abusive marriage where I eventually thought I would be dead. I know that you have feelings for this family and their pain as I do. I want that little girl to rest in God’s arms…which she probably is already but that is not just my opinion…Everything you pointed out is the truth. The very first day this was on the news and I saw her pictures I knew there were so many more issues, obesity an obvious. It will all be rectified with the autopsy which is inevitable. The trial will be on cable for months for everyone’s viewing entertainment. What a sad world we live in.”

72 VikingPrincess December 30, 2013 at 10:04 PM

Imagine the most cherished and loved person in your life. A person that you lo e so much, if given the chance you’d give your life for without hesitation.

Imagine all of the many things in your lifetime you overpaid, should not have purchased, bought but never used. Add it all up… food, cleaning supplies, toiletries, clothes, electronics, hobbies etc…
I bet it would be more than the cost of her hospital stay.
All these comments about money are ridiculous, not even in the same league. Death is part of life and if you had to make the decision for another person such as your child would you think about cost? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
If the child’s stay in the hospital is causing another child to be refused care that’s one thing.

I may not agree with the family but its not my decision to make. If they were told another child might die because their daughter is using the only hospital bed available they’d probably give it. But that is not the case.

73 anon December 30, 2013 at 10:19 PM

@71 Both of you live for the drama, just like Jahi’s mom, or you wouldn’t be making this discussion about you, would you?

74 WellWellWell December 31, 2013 at 4:10 AM

I’ve found the medical profession to be especially arrogant and insensitive in situations like this. It’s really telling that some of you with medical credentials (however questionable) are blaming the victim. As if those in the medical field can do no wrong.

75 Question? December 31, 2013 at 7:13 AM

Why haven’t we seen or heard from Jahi’s
Father?

76 Anon December 31, 2013 at 7:17 AM

“If they were told another child might die because their daughter is using the only hospital bed available they’d probably give it.”

I highly doubt this

77 Anon December 31, 2013 at 8:06 AM

“Why haven’t we seen or heard from Jahi’s Father?”

Maybe that calls from prison are only on odd numbered months..wait until January or when the check come in from the civil trial…………………………………

78 J. December 31, 2013 at 8:47 AM

Hospital Spokesman Sam Singer:

” … Monday afternoon, Jahi’s family said they had videotaped the girl moving. Singer could not comment because the family has not released the hospital from patient confidentiality laws, but did say that the “Lazarus effect” – involuntary movements by a dead body – is “not unusual, not shocking, and not a sign of life.”

79 Anon December 31, 2013 at 9:55 AM

“I’ve found the medical profession to be especially arrogant and insensitive in situations like this.”

I worked in a hospital & I never saw this
Who died & made you an expert in all this

80 WellWellWell December 31, 2013 at 2:01 PM

@Anon 79 ” I worked in a hospital & I never
saw this. Who died & made you an expert in
all this”

Your attitude is showing. You worked in a
hospital and never saw this. I think that’s
the problem. You people just don’t see it.
Arrogant and insensitive … I couldn’t have
asked for a better example of it than your
comment.

81 Anon December 31, 2013 at 4:12 PM

Couldn’t imagine the heartbreak of losing a child, or being able to think rationally through the grief. Having had multiple surgeries myself, it has always been made crystal clear that there are no guarantees, things can and do go wrong all the time, with no one in particular to blame. Just part of being a vulnerable human being.

I did however make sure that my wishes were known to my family, my doctor, and any medical staff I was interacting with. My bottom line was, “if I can not communicate with others, I do not want to be kept alive artificially”

I just came across this article: http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_24825162/jahi-mcmath-terri-schiavo-group-secretly-leading-transfer

Not surprising that Schiavo’s family is standing behind Jahi’s family. I do not understand why Jahi’s family would want to have their child in NY. Unless they are able to move there to be with her, I don’t see the point.

There are no easy answers here, I do hope that if they decide to remove her from support, that her organs are still viable and are donated.

82 JRConcord December 31, 2013 at 4:58 PM

Is it to soon for (good) m m m mmmeat sack joke?
maybe a good resurection joke?

83 Zap December 31, 2013 at 5:26 PM

Does anyone know how long a brain dead body can stay on a ventilator? How about decomposition? I was wondering about the father as well.

84 VikingPrincess January 1, 2014 at 12:17 PM

Well, even with the New Year you cannot forget this case, as it was I’m the headlines this morning.
What I found was either media sensationalism or bizarre priorities, as the article stated she is not on a breathing tube or feeding tube and the mother is worries about her not eating.
OK…two most important things air and water.
If she is off the ventilator, did they leave her airway open with a tube? How she is breathing is vague. I have seen brain dead individuals exhibit some ineffective breathing but not completely breathing on own, which is always terrible for families thinking their loved one is going to live. They look like they might be breathing but the breaths are not sufficient.
Hoping they will clear this up.
If feeding tubes are withheld, what about fluids? If she is getting IV fluids what is the rationale?
If not, why is the mother concerned about eating?
Weird

85 ChampagneKitty January 3, 2014 at 8:51 PM

In the beginning, I was sympathetic to this family. It was a complicated surgery that had gone horribly wrong. Why it went wrong remains to be seen and needs to be investigated. When the mother pleaded for more time with her child, my heart ached for her. However, that was weeks ago. I’ve been following this story closely and I cannot believe the direction it has taken. I still feel sorry for the mother, but in a different way. I am also very frustrated to watch this go on and on. I do not at all support what the mother, her family, and her attorney are doing. I am disappointed with the judge for extending the temporary restraining order from Dec. 30th to Jan. 7th. People keep saying that the mother “needs more time”. She has had weeks. The machines should have been turned off long ago and an autopsy should have been done, so that some of the questions about what happened can be answered. Six different doctors have performed tests on Jahi and pronounced her brain dead, yet the mother still clings to hope that there is some chance of recovery. This denial of reality is being encouraged by the family attorney, people donating to her cause, and others who are ignorant about brain death vs. coma and persistent vegetative state. The mother is taking every little scrap of encouragement and hanging onto it, digging herself deeper into a pit of denial and calling it love. Of course she loves her daughter and always will and she may not ever get over her death. But she needs to accept it. As harsh as this sounds, someone needs to take a hard line with her and try to get her to come to her senses. It sounds like the hospital has tried to do that and the family has shrugged it off, accusing them of being insensitive and disrespectful.

Some people are saying that this is all a ruse so they can sue for more money. I am not convinced of that. Not for the family, anyway. I am not sure what the attorney’s motivations are. But the family, I think, just does not want to accept that Jahi has died. Don’t get me wrong, I think the family is going to try to sue for wrongful death. But at the same time, they don’t yet have the information to back that up and they are not going to as long as they keep dragging this out. I do think there is some “smoke and mirrors” going on in an attempt to keep the machines from being turned off. They claim they have video of Jahi moving and responding to stimuli…but they don’t want to release it to the public. They claim that they have found a facility that is willing to take in Jahi…but Children’s has not been contacted by any such facility. They claim that they have arranged for medical transport for Jahi…which is true, but the transport company is saying that no one from the family is communicating with them. They claim that they have found a pediatrician who is willing to treat Jahi…but it turns out to be someone from Ohio who hadn’t met the family or examined Jahi and has preconceived notions about brain dead patients being able to recover, which is not what 99.99% of physicians believe.

Then there is this facility in New York. When the possibility of closer facilities pan out, this place in New York is finally named: New Beginnings Community Center in Medford, NY. From what I have read, I am convinced that this place is not actually prepared to take in Jahi. They are outpatient only. But they are now scrambling to make arrangements to accommodate the girl. They claim they are raising money and are working on hiring medical staff. They want to become an inpatient facility and are trying to build one. So none of this is already in place? Apparently not. Their efforts are driven by their belief that brain death is not really death and if they all pray hard enough, a miracle will occur and Jahi will recover. The family is clinging onto that and are focusing their efforts on getting Jahi transported there, whether New Beginnings is prepared to handle this or not. I have looked at their Facebook page. They are actively deleting comments that are not in support of what they are doing and claiming that anyone who isn’t supporting them is being insensitive, disrespectful, and negative.

As an observer and general member of society, I am appalled, disgusted, and embarrassed by the behavior of the family, their attorney, and this place in New York. Is Children’s Hospital doing the right thing by throwing up roadblocks? That is a difficult question to answer. I did not think it was very nice for them to say that an outside doctor can come into the hospital to perform the needed surgeries to prepare the body for transport and then later changed their mind and say they will not allow an outside doctor onto their grounds. I understand that decision has been reversed after today’s court proceedings. Money may be a concern, but I don’t think it is the primary concern. If Children’s were that uncaring, they would perform the surgeries so the family can ship Jahi out of there so another bed can be open for a new patient. But it’s more than that. The truth is, as tragic as it is, Jahi is dead and is not going to recover. It is wrong to perform surgery on a dead body, except for an autopsy. There is no medical benefit. Doing so to appease the family and appeal to their emotions is wrong. It could even be said that continuing to “treat” Jahi is mistreating and disrespecting the dead. The dead should be laid to rest. The family, especially the mother, needs to accept what has happened and definitely needs some serious grief counseling. This has gone way too far and for too long. They and their attorney have made this situation much worse than it needed to be. I strongly hope that this comes to an end soon.

86 An ICU RN January 4, 2014 at 4:43 AM

Viking Princess, brain dead people do not breathe. Her body is being oxygenated by a ventilator breathing for her. She has not been given a trach (permanent breathing tube) or a peg (feeding tube). She is dead, and it’s only a matter of time until her heart stops. I’m also curious about fluids or medications. I’m sure she’s getting fluids, but I wonder if vasopressors (to keep her bp up) are being used. This has become such a circus. I feel terribly for the family – they are being misled by that lawyer and multiple individuals who are well-meaning, but ultimately uneducated and misinformed. It makes brain death seem vague and not permanent. So much damage to the field of critical care is being done, and it sickens me.

87 lizzie January 4, 2014 at 7:59 PM

My heart goes out to this family also. BUT…..
I don’t want to sound harsh, but Jahi was over weight and having the surgery, a routine procedure would improve her breathing. Having any operation is risky and things to go wrong, that is why you sign numerous forms prior to. The fact that something did go wrong is horrible. But she is brain dead. That is the bottom line. Many specialist have confirmed this, a death cert has been issued. The family needs to deal with this, put the child to rest and move on. Harsh yes, but the Mother need’s a serious reality check and do the right thing by her daughter. How about a healthy eating program?

88 ChampagneKitty January 5, 2014 at 8:10 PM

Family attorney Christopher Dolan has told KGO radio that he plans to go to court to ask for another extension on the temporary restraining order that expires Tuesday at 5pm. I expected him to do that. Please please please, may the judge deny his request…this has just got to stop…

89 ANNONeeemoose January 5, 2014 at 9:09 PM

champagne kitty, all the news now (tonight – 9pm) is that she’s been moved. They raised near 50k for her.. so I assume that money is being used to move her. Estimate was 32k for transport to the new facility.

I wish them luck and a miracle, but I do believe she is already gone :( Very sad for the family , though I admire their hope and belief.

90 ANNONeeemoose January 5, 2014 at 9:12 PM

An ICU RN. I was just reading that the hospital has not been feeding her. If one were alive it seems they’ve be dead after 26 days of no nutrition. I guess dead people don’t need nutrition. But it’s so curious.. when one is brain dead do the deep brain stem activities still work? ie. how does her heart know to beat? How do her kidneys know to make urine? How does she stay warm and regulate her temp?

91 Cowellian January 5, 2014 at 9:19 PM

Jahi McMath: 13-year-old brain-dead Oakland girl moved by family from hospital
http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24850099/jahi-mcmath-attorney-tells-tv-station-child-will

92 Cici January 5, 2014 at 9:42 PM

Children’s Hospital released a statement tonight saying that they had released Jahi’s body to the coroner who had in turn released it to Jahi’s mother, “per court order, for a destination unknown.”

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Plans-firm-to-move-brain-dead-girl-lawyer-says-5116262.php

93 ChampagneKitty January 5, 2014 at 9:48 PM

Wow. Unbelievable. Incredulous.

94 Cici January 5, 2014 at 11:11 PM

An ICU Nurse,

I read an article that quoted a Children’s Hospital doctor saying that they were giving her fluids, salt, and carbohydrates, but that her body was deteriorating and her blood pressure dropping.

This is so sad. It is wrong for people to mislead Jahi’s family into believing that she is alive and she can get better. The family will put their hearts, their money, their lives into “saving” Jahi, but it will never happen. Those who care about the family should be helping them accept that their child is dead instead of supporting their delusion about her still being alive.

95 Cowellian January 7, 2014 at 11:30 AM

Jahi McMath: Family says brain-dead teen’s body may be too deteriorated to save
http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24857784/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-teens-body-may-be

96 Cici January 7, 2014 at 1:07 PM

I guess the family had to hear it from doctors they trust. Thank you for posting the link to the article, Cowellian. It explains how the body will inevitably decay once someone is brain dead. The brain regulates just about everything that goes on in the body. Without a functioning brain, the body cannot sustain itself and will shutdown. No amount of mechanical support or medication or prayer can stop it.

97 ChampagneKitty January 7, 2014 at 1:07 PM

I do not like that family attorney Chris Dolan is blaming the deterioration of Jahi’s body on Children’s Hospital instead of the fact that she’s been dead for several weeks. If he tries to litigate that in court, I don’t think that argument will stand up.

98 Cici January 7, 2014 at 1:28 PM

I’m with you, ChampagneKitty. His argument won’t stand up in court. He has done a tremendous disservice to his clients by encouraging their belief that their daughter is alive and can recover. I read another article about the case where they talked about brain death. It said no one has ever recovered after brain death. No one. Ever. Brain dead means dead. Once someone is brain dead, the body starts the inevitable process of decay after death. One doctor who is also a medical ethicist was asked how long a body can be maintained on mechanical support after brain death. He said there aren’t a lot of cases to look at because corpses are so rarely left connected to mechanical support. That was the word he used – corpses.

99 Steve January 7, 2014 at 1:43 PM

The family is in denial, but it’s their daughter. Let the family do what they want.

It’s their business, not yours.

100 ChampagneKitty January 7, 2014 at 2:32 PM

Sorry Steve, but the family made it the public’s business by repeatedly seeking media attention. They are making the rounds of the news talk shows right now…

101 Cowellian January 7, 2014 at 2:38 PM

This was a sad story to begin with, but it’s the family, and their lawyer, who have endeavored to keep the case in the public eye.

102 Denise January 7, 2014 at 2:52 PM

Just because someone speaks to the media doesn’t mean it’s anyone else’s business.

Champagne Kitty, you put your business on Claycord, but it’s still YOUR BUSINESS, and no one else’s.

103 Cici January 7, 2014 at 3:42 PM

The family and lawyer have waged a media campaign because they were trying to pressure the hospital to keep her on mechanical support and they were asking the public to donate money to their expense fund. They’ve accused Children’s Hospital and doctors of attempting to kill Jahi, despite the fact that she is legally dead. Their lawyer has argued that family members should be able to define death for a family member instead of the law defining death. The case has raised issues of right and wrong, the definition life and death, who makes the final decisions on withdrawing mechanical support, and who pays for continued care of a dead body. While none of us can make decisions regarding Jahi herself, topics surrounding her case are fair game for discussion by the public.

104 Cowellian January 7, 2014 at 3:58 PM

Steve and Denise,
If you think people shouldn’t be talking about this case, you picked the wrong thread to comment on.

105 ChampagneKitty January 7, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Very well put, Cici, thank you.

106 Cici January 7, 2014 at 4:40 PM

Not to mention the fact that the story has received extensive coverage in both local and national media. It’s even been the subject of an editorial in our local newspaper. Of course we’ll comment on it, especially on a thread created for it!

107 Denise January 7, 2014 at 5:07 PM

@ Cowellian—-107

I never said you can’t comment on this case, or anything else. I said it’s the families business, and no one else’s. There’s a difference.

If anything happened to your wife and children, people can comment all they want. But the bottom line is the decision would be yours, and nobody else’s.

Would you really care about my opinion (or anyone else’s) if this was your daughter, or would you want to able to make the decisions on your own? As well as being left the hell alone!

Yeah, that’s what I thought!

108 Cowellian January 7, 2014 at 5:37 PM

When I’m ready to be left the hell alone, I’ll avoid holding rallies in the street and hiring lawyers to make grand pronouncements to the press.

109 Antler January 7, 2014 at 5:45 PM

Macabre. And depraved.

110 Miguel January 7, 2014 at 5:45 PM

I’m with Denise. People need to leave this family alone. I heard on the news they’re getting death threats. That’s not only sad, it’s pathetic.

It’s their daughter. Mind young own dang business, and learn to stay focused on your own life.

111 Rollo Tomasi January 7, 2014 at 6:30 PM

@ Miguel:

If the family wants to be left alone, they need to step away from the cameras and reporters.

112 Cowellian January 7, 2014 at 6:37 PM

Why are you here Miguel?

113 Angelica January 7, 2014 at 6:41 PM

Some people are so mean.

If you want to do something constructive, pray for the family, not criticize them.

Until you’ve waked a mile in someone’s. Since most adults are parents (or eventually become parents), how would you feel if it was your daughter?

Who cares what Champagne Kitty thinks about the attorney. For someone who likes to whine 24/7 about her own medical problems to total strangers. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

114 ChampagneKitty January 7, 2014 at 6:58 PM

Angelica, stop it. Your jab at me is out of line and you know it. My medical problems have absolutely nothing to do with this conversation. And while I do talk about them (after all, it is a significant part of my life), I most certainly do not “whine 24/7″. By the way, not all Claycordians are total strangers. I have gotten to know some of them over the years.

You may not agree with my point of view of this conversation, and that’s okay. But taking personal jabs at me is going too far. You don’t see me doing that to you.

115 Cowellian January 7, 2014 at 7:33 PM

The gang with only one brain has showed up in force to attack anyone who disagrees with their collective opinion.

116 Angelica January 7, 2014 at 7:49 PM

@ Champagne Kitty-117

But yet it’s okay for you to take personal jabs at a family who’s losing their 13 year old daughter?

You’re right. You don’t take personal jabs at me, and taking personal jabs at you is wrong.

But you know what? I think taking personal jabs at this poor family, even on a thread regarding this subject is worse. You and I aren’t brain dead.

This poor family is receiving death threats. Have a little compassion for this young girl and her family, or keep your mouth shut.

THAT’S MY PERSONAL OPINION, AND I’M ENTITLED TO IT, JUST THE SAME WAY YOU’RE ENTITLED TO YOURS.

My guess is you’re not a Mom.

If you can dish it out, you need to learn to take it.

You do have friends on this sight, but with friends like Killjoy, who needs enemies!

What this family needs is prayers, not mean spirited criticism and death threats. If you don’t want to hear the family speak, turn the damn channel!

117 Cici January 7, 2014 at 8:09 PM

Angela, the ones who are being mean are the people who are misleading this poor family into believing that this child is alive, that they can give her treatment that will restore her brain, that if only Children’s Hospital had inserted a gastric tube she’d be on her way to recovery. Those are the mean ones, the immoral ones, the shysters that are taking advantage of this family in their grief.

You are being mean, too, in attacking ChampagneKitty personally If you aren’t interested in reading what she or anyone else thinks of the lawyer’s professional behavior, then don’t read this thread, which is all about this case.

118 Sabrina January 7, 2014 at 8:23 PM

Has Miss Kitty ever considered that her sniveling on Claycord may seem to others what this family seems to some?

I don’t have an opinion on this young girls life because she’s not my daughter.

Our kids are grown, and I can’t imagine having to bury a child at any age.

Children should outlive their parents, and as a Mom, I can’t imagine what it would be like to lose a child.

I have a lot of compassion for this family, and I’m appalled at all the criticism.

I believe in karma……

119 Cowellian January 7, 2014 at 8:32 PM

Angelica, stop with the drama! You know as well as any of us that nobody on this thread has made any death threats. You need to take your own advice. If you don’t like the conversation, go find another one!

120 Sabrina January 7, 2014 at 10:26 PM

Cowellian, Angelica never said anyone on this thread made death threats. She said the family is receiving death threats. I heard the same thing on the news.

If you don’t like Angelica’s posts, don’t read them.

Don’t you live over 2500 miles from here?

Aren’t you the one that’s always criticizing people who don’t share your opinion?

You’re a bully, as well as a know it all. It’s hardly just “my opinion.” A lot of people post that same opinion, and I happen to agree with them.

If you don’t like my posts, I don’t care!

121 Connie Dobbs January 7, 2014 at 10:54 PM

Thanks for making the Politics thread look like the Algonquin Round Table.

122 Mitch January 7, 2014 at 11:11 PM

Be supportive of the family.

For those of you who are parents, how would you feel if this was your daughter? Would you have pulled the plug at Christmas? If so, I’m glad you’re not my parents.

The level of sensitivity.

123 mika January 7, 2014 at 11:20 PM

so the body is deteriorating. at what point will the family comprehend
“death” ? still trying to understand what the family is thinking– blind faith or ignorance.

124 Amazed January 7, 2014 at 11:51 PM

Angelica, look up the definition of compassion. You are exhibiting none.

125 Cici January 8, 2014 at 12:30 AM

The Jahi McMath case is now being used in a political fundraising campaign by a group called Consumer Watchdog and the state association of trial lawyers. They have sent out letters asking for donations to get an initiative on the ballot to raise the $250,000 cap on pain and suffering awards in medical malpractice cases.

Consumer Watchdog, a Southern California nonprofit that has teamed up with the state’s trial lawyers on a proposed November ballot initiative to lift the limit, just sent out a mailer to supporters saying, “Hospitals like Children’s actually have an incentive to let children like Jahi die. If children who are victims of medical negligence live, hospitals are on the hook for medical bills for life, which could be millions”.

Christopher Dolan, the McMath family’s attorney, supports the initiative, but says using the case for fundraising is “a bad thing to do”. Dolan is a past president and current board member of the Consumer Attorneys of California. They are the primary group funding the initiative.

I find this disgusting.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Jahi-McMath-case-used-as-Consumer-Watchdog-5123174.php

126 Cici January 8, 2014 at 12:44 AM

Mika, the family has said that they will consider her alive as long as her heart is beating. I think they are being victimized by a shyster attorney who is taking advantage of their grief to further his own career and profit from the inevitable lawsuit. My heart breaks for the family. They are being lied to and convinced to put their money and hearts into a hopeless quest to save a child who is already dead. That’s not compassion. That’s evil.

127 Cici January 8, 2014 at 1:24 AM

Mitch, “pulling the plug” was not going to kill Jahi. She was already dead. She died on December 12. The Alameda County Coroner has issued her death certificate listing December 12 as the date of death. I have a daughter. I have a great deal of compassion for the family. I have no compassion for the people around them who are supporting their delusion that their daughter is still alive and can recover. What they are doing is cruel.

128 Cowellian January 8, 2014 at 5:22 AM

Sabrina, you’ve gone a great jobs of picking up the talking points from the rest of the gang with one brain. Angelica makes an unprovoked mean-spirited personal attack on a Claycord regular, and I’m the one who gets called a bully?

129 Cowellian January 8, 2014 at 6:33 AM

Meanwhile, getting back to the subject of this thread:

Jahi McMath case used as Consumer Watchdog fundraising tool

Consumer Watchdog … just sent out a mailer to supporters saying, “Hospitals like Children’s actually have an incentive to let children like Jahi die.

SFGate: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Jahi-McMath-case-used-as-Consumer-Watchdog-5123174.php

And they say that 99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name.

130 Marcus January 8, 2014 at 7:54 AM

C. Kitty had it coming. See post #85. She finds the family disgusting? She obviously doesn’t have any kids.

If Angelica woke a few people up, so be it!

Cowellian gets on peoples last nerves. Isn’t there a Nashcord blog down South?

Cowellian bullies people on every thread, but he can’t stand it when someone else does it. Wake up dude.

I have empathy for this family. I’m a Dad, and I have 3 daughters.

131 anon January 8, 2014 at 8:52 AM

Isn’ this similar to Dick Chaney’s situation?

132 Steve January 8, 2014 at 9:02 AM

This family is in denial, and would be with or without an attorney.

If they’re more comfortable remaining in denial, so what? What business is it of yours?

You’re not her parents, you’re not paying the bill, and I doubt any of you work at Children’s Hospital.

Get a life and quit worrying about it. I couldn’t care less what the family does one way or the other because it’s none of my business.

133 irishill January 8, 2014 at 9:04 AM

I heard two brain specialists on radio discussing this subject, and they have seen recoveries from this type of situation. Too many comments from media and people not qualified to comment!

134 Antler January 8, 2014 at 9:21 AM

Marcus! Knock it OFF!!! Cowellian was one of the first people ever on Claycord, and he is just as much HERE as any one of us on the ethernet is here. And whether or not one has children of ones own has absolutely no relevance to the travesty of this family’s behavior and the attention-seeking nature of their legal actions.

Cici is correct when she used the word “evil”. I have already used the words “Macabre. And depraved” Please look up the full meaning of those words.

Enough of your blither. And enough of people emoting about the children they have…and “Karma”. If any of you uses “Karma” for a religion (I do not.), then please consider that the child’s death itself might have been “Karma”.

135 @ antler January 8, 2014 at 10:45 AM

Beware Marcus, the Self-Appointed-Queen has spoken!

136 Honor the Antler January 8, 2014 at 11:10 AM

Superior to all, always proper, always correct, always in charge, always better than everyone else save for her special “favorites”. Everyone else is of a far lesser stature. Lucky at wealth, (husband worked for the money) special friend of her deity, loved by one and all. If someone does not love Antler, there is something very wrong with that person.

137 Cowellian January 8, 2014 at 11:29 AM

Marcus is just reciting talking points of the gang with only one brain, but he forgot the part about knowing it all. Thanks for playing.

138 VikingPrincess January 8, 2014 at 12:27 PM

@Icurn #86
Got it. At the time all I could find were online articles that children’s refused to insert breathing and feeding tubes. Made one think she wasn’t on a breathing tube. No sooner than mentioned, articles began to clarify this and other questions as more informed people inquired.
Have not kept up with this cause its so over the top. Their are many that do believe that the person is still alive if heart is still beating. The heart is an incredible organ. Each cell is unique from the rest of the cells in the body, as they continue to beat on their own.
Remove a single cardiac cell and it will beat on its own on a microscope slide…perhaps why medical professionals rely on brain death.

139 Marcus January 8, 2014 at 1:07 PM

@ Antler—–#138

Like I care! If you don’t like what I post, log off and do something else.

@ Cowellian—–#141

I have no idea if you’re a know it alL. I ignore your posts, unless you include my name. Don’t read my posts.

I’m with Steve.

140 Atticus Thraxx January 8, 2014 at 2:01 PM

But for the grace of God I’ll never know how far I’d go to “protect” my brain dead child. I don’t know the family, and it does seem like a circus, but I lean towards giving them the benefit of doubt. Pretty emotional issue. Guess I shouldn’t be surprised normally rational adults are at the point of name calling and claims of bullying.
It is possible to have heated discourse and still maintain some dignity.
That I of all people have to tell you that should be cause of much shame.

141 Rick January 8, 2014 at 2:58 PM

Will Atticus get lumped into the “one brain gang”, or is he exempt?

As a parent, how can I not give the family the benefit of the doubt? Until you’ve walked a mile in someone’s shoes.

For all of you who are ‘disgusted”, etc. with the family. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

If you’re parents, I wouldn’t want to be your child.

Of course this family is in denial. Who wouldn’t be? This poor young girl went in for a tonsillectomy. It’s not like she was dying of cancer.

May this family find peace of mind…….

142 Antler January 8, 2014 at 3:18 PM

Honor the Antler at #140 ~ ~ ~

You did not even use an anonymous moniker when writing. So at some level, you really must know that your sarcastic character assassination is really not a commendable thing to do.

I’m not certain of the exact year I was first told about Claycord, but it seems as though it might have been at least four years ago. Nevertheless, of all the people posting on Claycord, I have actually met in person only seven of them. My comment history would have shown you that I rather consistently will defend someone …..anyone……who is being attacked because of his marital status, or his social status, or whether he has children, or because of the type of education he had, because of the type of work he does, or where he was born, or where he lives now.

In addition, and since you obviously did not bother to review any of my comments going back over the years, here are some facts about me which “long-timers” on Claycord already know:

I taught piano lessons for 41 years before my retirement in summer of 2001. As a private contractor, I maintained one studio here in my home and (for the last 10 of those years) an additional studio at a Claycord music store, where I was under contract to Yamaha International Music Foundation teaching group classes (counting my piano, 7 pianos in the studio). During the concluding years of my teaching, I also prepared other Music Teacher Association of California teachers’ students for scholarship competitions. It was fascinating, delightful work (and many student and parent friendships endure from those years), but planning three recitals a year (plus the interruptions of flying at unexpected times to be with my mother when there was an emergency) was too much stress. So I made the very difficult decision to retire.

So far as my being a “special friend of my deity” goes: I was raised in a Protestant denomination, and I do still have reverence for God/Universal Intelligence. But I do not see around me any evidence that God favors any particular belief system nor any one individual, nor that God can be bribed with prayers to change what happens in each of our lives. So whereas I am thankful for many blessings, I also live every second grieving that our own firstborn child…our only son…. died quite suddenly of a ruptured brain aneurysm when their daughter was only two months old.

143 Cowellian January 8, 2014 at 4:08 PM

Atticus definitely has a mind of his own.

144 Antonio January 8, 2014 at 4:18 PM

@ Antler–147

WTF???

145 Antler January 8, 2014 at 5:25 PM

My comment at #147 was written as a reply to the “nameless person” at #140…..see first line of my comment.

146 Honor the Antler January 8, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Who really cares?

Except you of course.

147 Connie Dobbs January 9, 2014 at 6:22 AM

Antler, please consider easing up on the push-back reflex. You’re bad at it.

148 Antler January 9, 2014 at 12:28 PM

Connie, my push-back reflex is just FINE :-) I stomped on the two concepts of the nameless poster’s snark about “being lucky” and my husband providing all the money. My post also explained why I have no tolerance with people lecturing others by whining with “unless you have walked a mile in their shoes”. I do not HAVE to “imagine” what it is like.

What I am really bad at……TERRIBLE at….. is not recognizing when it is only a troll ripping away at me (though this time I do have a pretty good idea who it was due to her other recent attacks). Atticus tries and tries to teach me to let all of it go over my head, but I just think it’s so wrong to misrepresent facts about someone so as to put them down. But yes, I did lose my temper.

I considered writing an email to Mayor asking him to delete my post at #147, but only because I had already posted it on Claycord a long time ago. I still remember that both you and Atticus both wrote extremely kind, compassionate words to me at the time, but really I should not be putting so much personal information out there.

Sincere thanks for your straight-up advice.

149 Shelley January 9, 2014 at 12:59 PM

It’s just a blog. Don’t let people get to you, especially strangers. And firing back is what they want. It gives them the satisfaction of letting them know they “got to you.”

I’ve been attacked a couple of times on Claycord, but I couldn’t care less. Why would I care? I don’t know anybody here, and I don’t care what people think of me.

150 anon January 9, 2014 at 1:12 PM

@154 Whatever you say, Silva.

151 Mitch January 9, 2014 at 1:27 PM

@ anon—-#155

Her name is Shelley, not Silva. There’s only once person here who gets on my last nerves. He knows who he is, 2500 miles from here.

152 anon January 9, 2014 at 2:47 PM

It uses two names: Shelly and Silva. It said so last week.

153 Cowellian January 9, 2014 at 3:43 PM

I’m always glad to help out.

154 Shelley January 9, 2014 at 4:07 PM

@ anon—-154

I spell my name Shelley, not Shelly. And I don’t go by Silva.

There is a Shelly on here, but her posts are NO WHERE ANYTHING LIKE MINE!

Pay closer attention to the spelling of someone’s name. Or ignore my posts.

Or you can call me anything you want. I really don’t care…….

155 lizzie January 9, 2014 at 7:03 PM

Cici-131—
I agree with you 100%….. Sad, but it is a fact, she is dead. The family needs to come to grips with this and lay this lovely to child to rest.

156 Cici January 10, 2014 at 10:12 AM

From an article posted today on the Contra Costa Times website:

“This is basically organ support; it’s not life support,” said Dr. Neal E. Slatkin, a neurologist and chief medical officer at San Jose’s Hospice Of The Valley. “Her organs are alive, but she’s not alive. Her organs are slowly dying. Her fate is written; it’s just a question of when everything fails.”

“Dead is dead. There aren’t grades of dead,” Slatkin said. “Anything that (the attorney) or the family may perceive as improvement does not indicate that she is alive in any way.”

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_24880518/jahi-mcmath-medical-experts-say-organ-failure-inevitable

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