Ex-LAPD Cop & Triple Murder Suspect Mentions Concord Legend in Manifesto

February 7, 2013 18:31 pm · 113 comments

chris_dorner

Christopher Dorner, the ex-LAPD Officer who is accused of murdering three people, including a Cop, mentioned a former Concord resident in his manifesto, which he posted on his Facebook page.

Dorner, who is currently on the run, and promised “warfare” on the LAPD, talked about jazz legend and Concord Native Dave Brubeck, saying “Dave Brubeck’sTake Five” is the greatest piece of music ever, period.”

To read more about this story, please click ON THIS LINK.

{ 113 comments }

1 Howard K. Mullins III February 7, 2013 at 6:34 PM

For whatever else this nut case may be, at least he has decent taste in music.

2 :( February 7, 2013 at 6:44 PM

The LAPD has created their own Frakenstein

3 Anon February 7, 2013 at 6:45 PM

270lbs, shouldn’t be to hard to stop, let him “run” away. LOL!

As well, hey Mr. President it’s time to outlaw cops, clearly they are a danger to others. You should place a limit on the size and capacity of them because the bigger they are the more they’ll kill, right? Maybe we should only have dwarf cops. That why they can’t hurt too many people. Plus no evil features like running shoes, hats, gloves and the like huh? Don’t make sense, neither do you sir.

4 Swanky February 7, 2013 at 6:55 PM

Well, he may be right about “Take Five.” But, that doesn’t explain how killing people will clear his name. He’s not Jason Bourne.

5 Atticus Thraxx February 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM

Be that as it may….I’d still like to wake up tomorrow and hear he died suddenly of lead poisoning L.A.P.D. style.

6 Zap February 7, 2013 at 7:15 PM

he looks so jolly and friendly in his photo.

7 Jorge February 7, 2013 at 7:19 PM

A dirty cop… who would have ever imagined?

8 TinFoiler February 7, 2013 at 7:24 PM

Yeah sure – He listed His so called “cache” of weapons in His manifesto that He so called sent to CNN three days ago, Ha ha.
This is no different than the CIA / Wikileaks Hoax. Another Bin Laden.

9 Off Barbrady February 7, 2013 at 7:26 PM

Read his entire manifesto. Total crock of crap. I share Atticus’ sentiment. This is a mad dog killer.

10 Schmee February 7, 2013 at 7:33 PM

Ok fine.

Ill finally go listen to “take five” for the first time. I get the hint universe

11 Inthebarrio February 7, 2013 at 7:36 PM

#3, right on the money!

12 Chupacabra February 7, 2013 at 7:46 PM

We have crazy people killing Navy Seals and crazy people killing cops and their families and the NRAs crazy people are telling us background checks aren’t needed.

13 Bobby Sands February 7, 2013 at 8:29 PM

Sounds like a B or even C movie to me. No one actually knows what is going on here. We do not really know whether the LA cops framed this guy and he knows he is a dead man as soon as they catch him. This time the pursued is not a helpless drunk but a trained warrior. One man against thousands. We should support his efforts to spread the word of corruption of the police. Wise up suckers. There is more here than we are being told or ever will be told. The brass just wants him dead.

14 Joe A February 7, 2013 at 8:30 PM

It’s Spartanegro! Time to unite fellow slaves against the man!

But seriously…@chupacabra I can’t tell if you are being serious or not. Assuming that you are, he makes the NRA’s case as you describe it. How? He was a Naval officer and a California cop. Those programs have some of the most intense vetting processes. The fact that neither of them “discovered” this person’s “evil” side is evidence that these programs are nearly worthless.

For the record I (and the NRA) support background checks which…is already the law. But the fact remains by their very nature criminals aren’t going to follow the law and they will acquire a weapon no matter what.

Unfortunately for everyone what makes this situation especially dangerous is that this organism has made a proper RATIONAL choice. Reason is the most powerful thing known to man (except for the vagina of course). He has concluded that his life is over and is going after the people who have caused it for him. It is easy to criticize him, but if your career was destroyed, family life annihilated because of the psychological toll the event has caused, and future bleak it is the rational move for him to hit back. The bravest soldier is the one who knows that his life is lost but continues to engage the enemy.

I don’t know the particulars of this guy, but if his narrative is correct then, although as a society we have to terminate him since he is at war with us, he is making a choice that we all hope we have the ba11s to make when confronted with destruction. Instead most of us just bend over while our elites sell us out to Wall Street and dual citizens and outsource our jobs (or worse telling us there is a “shortage” of qualified applicants) turning us slowly but surely into ghetto savages.

Frankly, this is PRECISELY the event that 2nd Amendment types envision. Going to war as an individual against society if necessary. The only difference and what makes it “wrong” is that he is by himself and not part of a larger community with the same goal.

15 Jerk February 7, 2013 at 8:33 PM

#12, Uh No. You have a few that the media has made a big deal out of. Gun confiscation is the goal.

16 inmotion February 7, 2013 at 8:37 PM

Release the drones!

17 RABBLEMAN! February 7, 2013 at 8:41 PM

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!

18 Time Will Tell February 7, 2013 at 8:52 PM

If what he posted about LAPD is true, could be investigation, it’s interesting reading.

19 Laura Zah February 7, 2013 at 9:00 PM

He praises Hillary Clinton and he calls NRA President Wayne LaPierre “a vile and inhumane piece of shit.”

Gee, I’m glad it wasn’t the other way around, the media would be repeating it over and over and over. As it is, they are trying not to mention it at all.

20 Anonymous February 7, 2013 at 9:51 PM

I read his whole manifesto.Everyone has lied about him, just ask him. He is a coward and a back shooter. He thinks he is incredibly smart but could ‘t make it off probation. Also can’t spell or write very well. He’s not much of a man. This is the kind of guy who worked at Nazi death camps.I hope someone kills him , soon.

21 Googlar February 7, 2013 at 10:07 PM

Here is his manifesto, an interesting read.

http://www.thedailydigest.org/?p=1508

22 Elwood February 7, 2013 at 10:37 PM

@ Chupacabra #12

Won’t you please tell us how background checks would have prevented either one of these tragedies?. One shooter used a gun loaned to him by one of the deceased and the other is an ex-cop.

23 Phil Cutts February 7, 2013 at 10:37 PM

@ CHUBACAPRA

we also have crazy Navy Seals killlng people. They come back home after their tours of duty and many are mentally insane.
All’s fair in love and war.

Just because someone have a badge doesn’t make them sane.

24 Like It's Not Happening February 7, 2013 at 10:37 PM

No mention on msnbc or on their website, how strange. He praises liberal media and supports gun control.

25 Elwood February 7, 2013 at 10:39 PM

He needs to be hunted down and killed like a mad dog.

26 The Dude February 7, 2013 at 10:50 PM

Jorge, I’m getting the impression that you, and your various other screen names, aren’t big fans of the police…

27 dave February 7, 2013 at 11:12 PM

I don’t know man…..scares me that he makes some sense. His story seems plausible.I don’t and never will own a gun or murder someone but he seems like a normal guy pushed to the brink and being trained to use guns as a solution (military and police) resorted to what he knows. I’d be f*#ckin scared if I were on his list….

28 Can't trust 'em February 7, 2013 at 11:16 PM

Acquaintances have been speaking highly of Dorner. He says he didn’t lie which could mean other cops framed him. Seems possible to me. I don’t condone taking one’s life however these actions would push any honest cop over the edge after losing his job. I’ve never been arrested though I believe many officers falsify reports and get away with it.

29 Jess February 8, 2013 at 12:05 AM

Like It’s Not Happening #24, MSNBC’s website features only political stories. It doesn’t have anything about the blizzard or sports or entertainment, either. If you want the NBC website that covers other areas in addition to politics, go to NBCNEWS.COM. It has several stories about the shootings.

30 anon February 8, 2013 at 12:10 AM

I think he went to school w/ my ex. my ex graduated at the top of his class for narcissism. He was also a big fat liar. I’m seeing here this guy probably was ahead of him for narcissism and having out of control anger problems. Relatively speaking I could have picked worse. I’m working on thinking positively about negative experiences.

31 TinFoiler February 8, 2013 at 6:56 AM

CNN using a doctored manifesto, what’s new.

32 judaspriest February 8, 2013 at 6:58 AM

above the law like so many of his previous associates, they simply think they are above the law since THEY wear the uniform the law simply cannot be applicable to them sad very sad

33 KJ February 8, 2013 at 7:31 AM

I am struck by how his attempt to blow the whistle on misbehavior got him labeled a “bad guy.” This seems to be a common theme these days; other recent whistle blowers have similarly become targets of the “System” instead of candidates for Good Citizen awards. You have to wonder: Why are we being made to hate whistle blowers? Who benefits from that?

34 Another one February 8, 2013 at 7:46 AM

Police in Torrance Ca. Shoot a woman
In the back in a case of mistaken
Identity, oops. This is just another
Person who can’t make sense out of
what’s happening to him. He just
happens to be highly trained and is
using his training , to strike out at
his perceived oppressors.
I can only hope that no one else is
mistaken fo this person and shot as
the woman in Torrance was.
But collateral damage is always
manageable if the Villan is Evil
enough.

35 mtzman February 8, 2013 at 7:56 AM

@ Like It’s Not Happening #24, you might also want to actually read the manifesto before you spout off. He has lots of good things to say about George H. W. Bush, Chris Christie, conservative radio talk show hosts in Los Angeles, the military, the moral breakdown of the family, especially black families. You know — all the usual liberal craptrap …

36 Jeff February 8, 2013 at 8:22 AM

It’s interesting – I can understand where he is coming from about his name being all he has – but I have difficulty understanding his actions.

I will never condone this type of behavior – but our system IS broken, and it starts from the TOP. Push a man too far and anyone can snap – but tell me, gun grabbers, how can this possibly happen? Those background checks and badges don’t change you from being HUMAN.

Any of us can snap at any time. It’s up to the REST of us to defend our own lives.

Now do you gun control freaks get it? Your laws DON’T STOP CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR, the only impact the LAW ABIDING.

An early RIP for when they catch this cat. Hope he mans up and turns himself in and faces what he did wrong, and I hope LAPD does some investigation into the alleged coverup and takes action as well.

LAPD seems a bit trigger happy with the rest of the public, however. Doubt they’ll do anything but shoot and call it a day. This type of behavior is exactly what he is claiming has happened – it’d be interesting to know the facts of his story.

37 Anonymous February 8, 2013 at 8:55 AM

Dear Jeff,

Read this goof balls manifesto. This thing has been investigated to death and upheld by the courts.What’s to investigate? He says he objected to another Officer using the “n” word and physically assaulted him and wishes he had put a bullet in his brain for uttering the “n ” word. You want to give him credibility?

38 Laura Zah February 8, 2013 at 8:56 AM

mtzman #35…. I can’t speak for everyone but as far as most of my conservative friends and I are concerned you left wing guys can have both George H. W. Bush and Chris Christie.

39 Mimi (original) February 8, 2013 at 9:03 AM

Well, without a doubt he’s correct about Take Five, but aside from that momentary flash of intelligence he’s a total whackazoid!

40 Harry Callahan February 8, 2013 at 9:07 AM

If he comes my way he will meet up with Mr. .357.

41 Citizen Arrest February 8, 2013 at 9:13 AM

This is why Gov’t employee’s should be DISARMED!!!

42 C'mon February 8, 2013 at 9:14 AM

Liberal ” crap trap” , Good things
To say about Bush and Christie.
Who’s more confused, you or him.
” there are none more blind, than those
that refuse to see”.
I can only surmise that some of the
posters here are seldom out in the
real world.
While this type of story is going on,
it allows Chevron to punish us by
manipulating gas prices, Chase to
cover up a 6 billion dollar swindle ,
and so on.
The war on the Working Class, or
Middle class starts at the family level.
Ted Kosinski was right about a few
things in his Manifesto, technology
has isolated people from the most
important thing in Human nature,
personal contact.
H. K. M. III and his ilk are the result.
An empty cup with a pebble in it.

43 @Jeff February 8, 2013 at 9:19 AM

You’re a fool. Your future is to be shot mistaken for a suspect. Have fun.

44 @jeff February 8, 2013 at 9:30 AM

This guy said , “I have no family so I’ll kill yours” and you want to listen to anything he says?

45 Let's Go Oakland February 8, 2013 at 9:39 AM

I’m with #27 and #28. Just because he’s acting in a nature that we comfortable folks morally disagree with, doesn’t mean he’s crazy. This is clearly a last resort. The unedited manifesto is worth a read. I sincerely doubt #9 read it.

46 Jeff February 8, 2013 at 9:49 AM

#43

Sounds like you are the one with a problem. Enjoy, bucko!

47 Jeff February 8, 2013 at 9:52 AM

I believe that there are a number of things covered up to avoid liability. I don’t want to give credibility to his ACTIONS, but I’m not so sure he doesn’t have a valid POINT.

That’s the difference, for those who seem to think I support him going out and shooting people..

48 Let's Go Oakland February 8, 2013 at 10:04 AM

#39 didn’t read the manifesto either.

49 Jess February 8, 2013 at 10:10 AM

Jeff, you say anyone can snap, therefore background checks don’t work. You are making a perfect argument for Senator Feinstein’s law banning the sale of new military-style assault weapons. Those weapons are designed to kill a lot of people fast and, as you state, there’s no way to predict which formerly law-abiding citizen is going to snap and start shooting people they feel have wronged them or people in a movie theater or kids in school.

50 What Security February 8, 2013 at 10:18 AM

Pray for him and his victims!

He had a good point! How do you promote people who have a history of racism and abuse in the police force..

How do you reward bad behavior in any company while the guy playing by the rules gets fired. LA Cops have been rotten for years

51 Squeeze February 8, 2013 at 10:20 AM

Opps!!!

This CAN’T be good PR for the “Gun Grabbers”;
The “background” checks he’s had to have;
psych evals;
Probably owns “SEMI-AUTOMATIC” weapons (this means you just pull the trigger once per round (but SEMI-AUTOMATIC sounds so scary; Nazi’s and Communists are probably kicking themselves for not thinking that one up. But no problem: they managed to execute millions anyway).

It can’t happen here, right Native Americans?

52 C'mon February 8, 2013 at 10:22 AM

When a person is ignorant, or just stupid
it is easier for them to join a group,
Democrats, Republicans, etc. and
validate their feelings or ideas based
On whatever dogma seems to fit.
The Media realized this years ago,
Keep the homeless away, they are
a blight, don’t concern yourself
with their Humanity, or how they got
that way !
Who’s next, the working poor, renters
For instance. Someone said to me
” People that rent don’t pay property
Taxes”. I informed him that not only
do they pay all the property taxes for
the rental property that they reside in,
they also pay the taxes on the properties
the landlord owns.
My point here is, this Guy felt he was
wronged and used the nearest solution,
his training to solve it.
The homeless know most people don’t
Care about them, so why are you so
surprised when one of them tells you
to get screwed.
If it were an issue that bothered you,
such as gun control , you would and do,
raise hell.
The more we refuse to come together
and face the issues tearing this Country
apart, all that’s left is to sit back and
Watch.

53 mtzman February 8, 2013 at 10:55 AM

Jess is right, you nailed it, Jeff. Thanks!

54 The Closer February 8, 2013 at 12:08 PM

Can’t think of a better way to clear my good name.

55 Screwy Louie February 8, 2013 at 12:11 PM

Rambro on the loose.
no ones safe!

56 Jeff February 8, 2013 at 12:32 PM

LOL at the gun-grabbers changing around my argument….

Anyone can snap at any time – evil exists. Been proven over and over again.

With the number of firearms already in existence in this country, criminals will ALWAYS have access. The only thing your bans stop is THOSE WHO ABIDE BY THE LAW IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!

Get it straight, and stop mischaracterizing the TRUTH. The country is SAFER with firearms in the hands of the law abiding. Because no one will be there to protect us – when is the last time you saw a domestiv violence victim being “protected” by police the way the LAPD is protecting their own today? HMMMM

Background checks can’t STOP crime either. Neither do “gun free zones.”

In fact, ALL of your ideas have been “shot down” by the facts. Your ideas are NOT going to make the country any safer from violent crime.

57 oG reggiN February 8, 2013 at 12:33 PM

At 270 lbs, he cant be too far from a FRIED CHICKEN restaurant, he has to eat sooner or later.

58 Elwood February 8, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Who knew there were so many wacko left wing loonies in Claycord?

It appears that they’re either taking too many meds or have gone off them completely.

59 Let's Go Oakland February 8, 2013 at 1:41 PM
60 The Theorist February 8, 2013 at 2:30 PM

How do you mistake 2 small Asian women in a different color truck for the alleged suspect?
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/08/16900348-women-shot-during-lapd-ex-cop-manhunt-had-no-warning-lawyer-says?lite

Looks like the LAPD is trying to shut up a whistleblower.

61 Jess February 8, 2013 at 2:44 PM

Jeff, the country isn’t safer if we put guns into the hands of law-abiding citizens. Christopher Dorner was a law-abiding citizen until the day he snapped, shot and killed three people, and declared war on the LA police department.

62 Jeff February 8, 2013 at 2:49 PM

Jess – so you are saying he committed a criminal act?

That would indicate to me that he is not a law-abiding citizen.

Interesting to note that I’m a firearms owner, law-abiding, yet you are trying to use the actions of this man to take away my RIGHTS when I’m innocent.

We can disagree in a civil manner – if you don’t like firearms, don’t own them. But don’t label me a crook simply because I want to exercise my rights. I’m not stopping you from having your right to freedom of speech….

63 Jeff February 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

This country is founded on the premise of innocent until proven guilty. You are labeling ALL gun owners guilty for the actions of a few.

That’s like saying we shouldn’t have cars because some people drink and drive.

We shouldn’t have swimming pools because kids can drown.

We shouldn’t fly because every so often, planes crash.

We should ban teachers because some are pedophiles.

And the list goes on. You can’t prevent these things from happening by banning them, because crooks don’t follow laws in the first place!!!

64 Jeff February 8, 2013 at 2:53 PM

Lastly, Jess – my argument is that because even those who are the MOST WELL TRAINED can act out in violence, the REST of us should have the ability to defend ourselves with equal force.

Because we all know that when seconds count, no one will be there to save you BUT you.

65 @jeff February 8, 2013 at 2:58 PM

Sorry not all not us want to live where everyone around us acts like Harry Callahan. Unfortunately that’s the world you are proposing and sad you believe that’s what it takes.

66 Howard K. Mullins III February 8, 2013 at 3:06 PM

One guy goes nuts and every innocent person even remotely associated to the nut get punished.

Punish those who are in the wrong, not the innocent.

The police are under incredible pressure. I wonder if anyone else could withstand being under the eye of such a nut job. I don’t think I could.

Things will happen, don’t punish people who are forced to react to a crazy bastard. Get the crazy bastard and punish him. Those officers who shot those women will pay enough without anyone else’s belittling them for reacting like human beings.

67 @The Theorist February 8, 2013 at 3:07 PM

Police shot up another truck they mistakenly thought was Dormer’s just 25 minutes after they shot at those poor women. I don’t think it’s a matter of trying to shut up a whistleblower. I think anybody who kills a cop and who says he’s going to kill other cops is not going to be taken alive, even if he tries to surrender. Those two women didn’t get any warning at all, no chance to surrender. The police just opened fire on them. Lucky for them the officers were such poor shots.

68 Anon2you February 8, 2013 at 3:13 PM

Something is fishy about this story…At first I was thinking, “wow psycho Cop goes on rampage.” But with LA Police’s immediate “Shoot First Ask Questions Later” attitude on this I am wondering just a little bit. Don’t get me wrong, killing two people trying to clear you name is just off the hook crazy. But what made him crazy, was he pushed to snap? We all must remember this is the LAPD, one of the most corrupt police departments historically in the US, right behind NYPD and Chicago PD…If they want you out, your out, if they want you quiet, you become deadly quiet…Some of the friends and family statements have me wondering…and from what I have seen of his past (unless something new has come up) he seems to have been a pretty stand up guy, before he lost it…Why do they want him dead so bad? Other criminals have killed innocent people, other criminals have threatened police with death or harm. So, again why this shoot first mentality?

69 Jeff February 8, 2013 at 3:18 PM

Ok, Ok…just one more….

A nice quote from the area where they are searching for the suspect.

““There is no panic,” said Big Bear Mayor Jay Obernolte. “We’re very hardy residents…and many people are armed.”

70 mtzman February 8, 2013 at 3:39 PM

@Jeff #63 and #64, the fallacy of your argument is this: no one is saying we shouldn’t have cars because some people drink and drive. However, we license all drivers and have laws that regulate the activities of all drivers, we place additional restrictions on those who do drink and drive, and we have safety regulations over the cars we purchase.

We have swimming pools even though some kids drown but we also have regulations in place that require appropriate fencing and other ways to minimize accidental drownings.

We allow people to fly but we also have strict regulations on the pilots who fly them and safety regulations on the planes themselves to minimize the risks to those who do fly.

We don’t ban teachers because some are pedophiles but we do license and do background checks on teachers in order to minimize the chances of a pedophile becoming a teacher.

Likewise, I don’t hear many people arguing to repeal the Second Amendment, but what I do hear — and fully support — are reasonable regulations that minimize the inherent risks with guns.

And as to your argument that because even those who are the most well trained can act out in violence the rest of us should have the ability to defend ourselves with equal force, I would argue that even with the most well trained there is a time and place for them to possess weapons. My son is a military policeman on active duty with 16 years service to his country and is as well trained as they come, but even he is restricted as to when and what types of weapons he may possess and carry. There is absolutely no reason why even a former police officer (especially one who has a documented history of depression and was fired from his job as a police officer) or even a recently honorably discharged navy reservist with special weapons training should have the cache of weapons that Christopher Dorner apparently has. That is simply madness and the madness is not all coming from him.

Finally, the issue isn’t just about background checks or banning assault weapons or whatever. What needs to happen is a cultural shift and that will not happen overnight but may take generations. But, just like the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 60s, for example, it needs to start with laws and for God’s sake it needs to start now.

71 Jess February 8, 2013 at 3:58 PM

Jeff, The facts aren’t on you side. Guns don’t make us safer. Check out these facts, based on actual research, in a recent editorial in the New York Times.

“But there is a more fundamental problem with the idea that guns actually protect the hearth and home. Guns rarely get used that way. In the 1990s, a team headed by Arthur Kellermann of Emory University looked at all injuries involving guns kept in the home in Memphis, Seattle and Galveston, Tex. They found that these weapons were fired far more often in accidents, criminal assaults, homicides or suicide attempts than in self-defense. For every instance in which a gun in the home was shot in self-defense, there were seven criminal assaults or homicides, four accidental shootings, and 11 attempted or successful suicides.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/dangerous-gun-myths.html?_r=0

There’s a much greater chance that gun of yours is going to end up hurting you or a loved one, not defending them from harm. Guns don’t make us safer, Jeff.

72 Jeff February 8, 2013 at 4:05 PM

mtzman – we already do background checks on firearm purchases. We have laws on the books to punish people if they violate the law with a gun. None of that has stopped this type of crime from happening, and no matter how many other laws you put on the books, it won’t stop it. Interesting to note – California has 40000 persons who should not own guns that do. Perhaps the focus should be on ENFORCEMENT OF CURRENT LAWS, not adding more that won’t stop a crook.

The cultural shift you refer to has to do with morality and accountability, which is something I don’t believe the “government” can control. It’s a PERSONAL issue, and it needs to be taught at an early age. Unfortunately, people would rather lean on government intervention than take a hard look in the mirror at themselves and their behaviors.

And the real truth – the government wants to mold itself after a failing business model, and wants to take away your right to stop them from doing it. That’s WHY the system of checks and balances is so important.

Mtzman, I respect your opinion, but let’s face the facts – ALL of those regulations (pools, driving, etc) that you mentioned do NOT STOP these incidents (drownings, drunk driving, etc) from occurring. It simply outlines what the punishment will be if you violate it.

Hold people accountable WHEN, and ONLY WHEN, they violate the current laws on the books. We don’t NEED more laws to tell us how to live our lives. And we certainly don’t need to judge the innocent as guilty simply because we have an insane fear of an inantimate object.

73 Jeff February 8, 2013 at 4:10 PM

Jess, the facts ARE on my side. 4109 defensive gun uses per day, and that’s just the ones that are reported. 45+ states with concealed carry laws – violent crimes have decreased in each of them.

Just because the press likes to give all their attention to the one or two bad incidents that occur with some idiot who violated the law, does not mean that there aren’t MILLIONS OF US gun owners who don’t break it.

FACT – .02% of firearms permit holders (I believe there is 900,000 at last count) in Florida lose their permits because of the commission of a crime. Is this REALLY the segment of society we need to be concerned with?

900,000 hunters in Wisconsin. How many of them commit crimes with firearms?

Should i continue? Stop listening to the Brady campaign’s BS rhetoric and do your own research. Look at the facts on BOTH sides, and then make the determination who you want to believe. But don’t label me a criminal – I have firearms and I’m not a problem nor a threat to society.

74 Jeff February 8, 2013 at 4:11 PM

By the way, Jess

I have 4 examples in my family alone where a firearm HAS saved my life or the life of someone I know.

Guns DO make us safer from a criminal who doesn’t give two craps about our safety, only their needs.

75 Jeff February 8, 2013 at 4:12 PM

And the fact that you would cite the NY times as being unbiased research tells me that you really haven’t explored the facts.

Check out the DOJ, the FBI, then come back and let’s chat. Toodles.

76 Howard K. Mullins III February 8, 2013 at 4:23 PM

mtzman is right about gun control taking generations. I was thinking about the war on poverty that johnson got started. Then the war on drugs. Now the war on terrorists.

If America wants to control guns its going to have to control its boarders. Boarders need to be impenetrable. Is there a Berlin type wall in the future for our boarder with Mexico and Canada? Actually, the Berlin wall would be inadequate, something far more impenetrable would be needed. Drugs come in on subs and boats, I’ll bet guns could come in that way too.

Whenever government tells people it can no longer have something, that is exactly what people want. And people will do just about anything to get things the government does not want them to have. Look at the huge black market in Europe and other countries where things are banned.

Regulating guns? Mtzman gave some examples. Guns are already regulated by laws that are poorly enforced. But I thought about the first amendment. Speech is regulated and punishable. Just tell someone you have a bomb in a airport and see how much trouble that causes. Laws make it a crime to shout fire in a crowded theater. Everything is regulated.

Regulate guns more? How about we do more to help the mentally ill first. We are a compassionate society. Let’s spend more money on America’s mental health problems. I am all for that. We should be helping people who desperately need help and have been all but forgotten by society.

Addressing the ignored and underfunded mental health problems will do more to help people and families than anything else we can do right now.

77 Jerk February 8, 2013 at 4:35 PM

#71, Just like I’ll never DIE of AIDS, My gun will NEVER harm me or my Family. Know how to handle your gun and your body.
You’re spouting Fear and Paranoia.

78 TinFoiler February 8, 2013 at 4:43 PM

Big lie. Manifesto has already been edited. Total bullsh*t, smells of CIA monkey business.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh4QMCV5g-k
http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/police.pdf

79 @74 Jeff February 8, 2013 at 4:45 PM

Then there is something wrong with you. You would be the only person in Claycord that a gun has saved their life 4 times. You are a jerk asking for a confrontation.

80 The New York Times... February 8, 2013 at 4:50 PM

… as an unbiased source? Oh, that’s a good one.

81 Gettin there February 8, 2013 at 5:13 PM

Change requires time, any intelligent
person realizes the proliferation of
military style assault rifles evolved over
the last few decades. There are many
out there that buy these weapons
just for a perceived ” cool” factor.
It’s no different than the person that
has to have bigger wheels on his car
than the guy down the street, or the latest
I Phone. An AR 15 is a fine weapon,
but too readily modified to full auto
as are many. People are going to
snap, any one can.
It will take time, but these easily modified
assault weapons, and high capacity
magazines should be banned and
possessing either should be a felony.
But what ever gets banned then creates
a black market for it.
That brings us to, health care. Mental Health
Particularly , if we don’t wake up and
help those that need help, we are doomed to
more headlines like we have seen.
Remember the ex Marine in Texas ,
Imagine he had an AK47 up there on
that clock tower.
Training , including live fire with the
weapon being purchased should be
mandatory! It may cost a little money
but since most people shot by their own
weapon have little or no training, this
would make sense.
I own a SWMP45, I keep a blank round
on top, it makes a hell of a sound,if
that doesn’t turn a person around,
you get the picture.
All these politicians are our ” Employees”
if you will, so lets start locally, and make
these people do what they are supposed
To do, work for us.

82 Howard K. Mullins III February 8, 2013 at 5:32 PM

If you outlaw the gun, better outlaw the parts as well. Its not too hard to purchase enough parts to build your own.

Gun parts can be shipped internationally without much scrutiny. What harm can a trigger assembly be to anyone, or recoil spring in a box?

So besides closing the boarders, every package will need to be inspected.

Guns won’t be banned in my lifetime. Restricted to death? Yes, already is, but eliminated? Never.

There will just be a bunch of new law breakers adding to the ever increasing number of criminals in this country. Time for amnesty?

83 Atticus Thraxx February 8, 2013 at 5:32 PM

Clearly I’m outta my league here with all these constitutional scholars copy and pasting the same internet crap back and forth for the last few years.
But #79 I urge you to remove your “blank” noisemaker from your M&P. It is a tactically unsound practice. Want to make noise, buy a cap gun.Or an air horn. Personal defense is no place to be f**king around.

84 OMG February 8, 2013 at 5:48 PM

@HKMIII
I just read your post, it was the most
enlightened thing I have seen you
post here. People with Mental Health
issues affect everyone. They could
be making your burrito and if they thought
you were rude to the cute cashier,
Get the picture. It could be your own
child, hell it might have been your own
Parent. The cause of the increase in
Mental health problems is unknown,
exactly, but if we continue to ignore
it, well you see the results already .
Gettin there, I wrote that before I read
Yours, OMG!

85 JAC February 8, 2013 at 5:51 PM

@79 I bet if I gave you a month and a machine shop you couldn’t convert an ar-15 to fully automatic that could fire more than three bullets without failing. That has to be the oldest and biggest lie the liberals have laid on the public.

Go stick a paper clip in your banjo and see if that makes it a fully automatic.

86 Jess February 8, 2013 at 6:02 PM

Jeff, it was a team of researchers at Emory University that did the research, not the New York Times. The editorial cited research by others showing guns don’t make us safer. Those are the facts, Jeff.

Where did I ever call you a crook or a criminal?

Lenient concealed carry laws haven’t lead to lower crime rates. Those statistics have been thoroughly debunked. They haven’t lead to an increase in crime, either. They don’t seem to have much effect on crime at all. I did the research, Jeff. Carrying a gun with you doesn’t make you safer.

You cite 4109 defensive gun uses per day. I don’t know where you got that number from, but the research of Kleck and Lott are often cited by those attempting to prove guns make us safer. I urge anyone who believes that to look into the criticism of their work. It has been debunked by many.

You said we already do background checks on gun purchases. The fact is, we only do background checks on SOME gun purchases, not all. Universal background checks is what Obama is proposing and what the NRA is working so hard to defeat. Do you support background checks on all gun purchases, including private sales and gun show sales? Seems like common sense to me. It wouldn’t stop any law abiding citizen from getting a gun, but it would make it more difficult for the mentally ill and those legally prohibited from buying them.

I’m not buying your argument that there’s no point in gun laws because criminals won’t follow the laws. That argument could be applied to any law. Why have laws against robbing banks? The bank robbers won’t obey the laws.

87 Hey Thraxx February 8, 2013 at 6:17 PM

My point was a general one, many
assault rifles are to easily modified.
Two hundred years ago Arabs used
Muskets taken from the British and
made their own copies that were better
than the originals.
And my MP45 is semi auto, that second
round comes mighty quick, and since
I shoot regularly, I hit what I aim at.
I pray I’ll never need it, but if I do,it’s right
here.
And what you got against Banjos, geez!

88 @howard February 8, 2013 at 6:21 PM

Try building a gun from parts. You’ll do fine until you get to that thingmajig we call a receiver. Maybe some tape or glue instead?

89 Gettin there February 8, 2013 at 6:24 PM

@Jess; you nailed it!

90 Atticus Thraxx February 8, 2013 at 6:33 PM

Well I do love a good banjo. But “easily modified” might come into play if your a machinist, a good one, with proper tooling. Putting blanks in a weapon you intend to protect yourself and loved ones is foolish, don’t care how much you shoot. And frankly I question your claim about Arabs making copies better than the British originals. Though I’ve seen a few Arabian made flintlocks, they are impressive only in ornamentation. Say what you want about the Brits, they have always made excellent weapons. But I do love a good banjo.

91 Cliche NRA Talking Point #7019 February 8, 2013 at 6:35 PM

The car and gun analogy is about as retarded as the NRA propaganda points come. Not only do you need to be licensed, insured and registered into a database to even drive one of these things (which for some reason the gun nuts are really against adopting) — but their sole purpose is to transport your ignorant ass to and from locations.

Guns are created for one thing and one thing only: to kill. Animal, human, your lame paper target bad guys. You know how you come off when you try to make really crappy points and analogies about how unfair and ridiculous people are for wanting at least mediocre regulation on these deadly tools? A child. A child who has been told that maybe, just maybe, this very dangerous item is not a toy. That it is not a recreational product or an extension of your malehood. That maybe there should be some checks and balances when it comes to ownership of these weapons.

But it’s always the same cliche responses. If it’s not a shitty analogy about swimming pools, skateboards, toasters, cars, planes, whips n’ chains — it’s some incompatible bi-polar logic about human nature getting guns anyways, which in itself calls for a tactful solution (that may, *shock*, include gun control). Not one way whining to save your precious fire arms or move us a couple steps back from your precious “conceal and carry” fantasies.

This is why this debate never goes anywhere. One little glimpse of sane regulation and it’s a bunch of cry babies screaming weird analogies and talking points in order to protect their toy box.

As for Dorner himself: From the side-lines it is interesting and terrifying. His accusations should be investigated, but his actions are deplorable. This vendetta is already awkward and morally disgusting, but purposely gunning for innocent family members is incredibly vile.

I think the true failure here is not gun control. It’s more so in how we treat and ease our men and women in uniform back into civilization.

92 Enfield303 February 8, 2013 at 7:23 PM

@Atticus Thraxx#90…Right on!!!

93 Gettin there February 8, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Arabs are excellent blacksmiths,
They were way ahead of most Eurupean
countries in that era in metallurgy.
And with the exception of the Enfield,
I can’t think of any thing they did not
just copy. But that matters little when
a ” zip gun” can kill you just as dead
as a Glock.
You can pick up on the little generalities
but you just can’t get the big picture,
I would rather have serious gun control
legislation passed than to keep reading
these horrible headlines.
Responsible people will always have to
give up something or other to keep
the ever increasing population of morons
In check.

94 mtzman February 8, 2013 at 8:29 PM

@Jeff #72, “California has 40000 persons who should not own guns that do. Perhaps the focus should be on ENFORCEMENT OF CURRENT LAWS, not adding more that won’t stop a crook.” Great! Let’s put additional money and resources into getting the guns away from these 40,000 people, but my guess is that most of the gun advocates won’t support increasing their taxes to pay for it. Lord knows the Republicans in Congress have fought tooth and nail to cut public employees, including law enforcement, not increase them.

“The cultural shift you refer to has to do with morality and accountability, which is something I don’t believe the “government” can control.” I couldn’t agree with you more, but history shows that some kind of legal intervention is necessary before that cultural shift can take place. With all due respect, you would be a perfect example of that kind of necessity.

“ALL of those regulations (pools, driving, etc) that you mentioned do NOT STOP these incidents (drownings, drunk driving, etc) from occurring. It simply outlines what the punishment will be if you violate it.” Not true. Of course, they do not completely eliminate those incidents from occurring but they do greatly diminish them, and in no way would the fact that not all incidents were eliminated be justification for not having any regulation at all.

95 Atticus Thraxx February 8, 2013 at 8:45 PM

When someone says “You can pick up on the little generalities
but you just can’t get the big picture,” it usually means either they are unprepared for the argument or full of bullspit.

Tell you what, you get any, and I mean any, massed produced Middle Eastern designed rifle and come to the range. I’ll bring my 70+ year old British designed and manufactured No.4(T) and whoever shoots the tightest three round group brings home both rifles.

And if I was one of your Jeff-types I’d crawl all over your last statement:
“Responsible people will always have to
give up something or other to keep
the ever increasing population of morons
In check.” which is both contradictory and nonsensical at the same time.

Look I’m not taking issue that some form of weapons control is needed, it’s just that your arguments are ….for lack of a better term…retarded.

96 mtzman February 8, 2013 at 8:49 PM

@Jeff #69, here’s the difference between the politicians and the ones who actually have to deal with the mess. You stated, “A nice quote from the area where they are searching for the suspect. ‘There is no panic,’ said Big Bear Mayor Jay Obernolte. ‘We’re very hardy residents…and many people are armed.’

And here’s the flip side: “While scores of law enforcement officers continued to search Friday for a fugitive ex-cop suspected of killing three people, San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon said he is worried about armed Big Bear residents — whom he calls ‘hearty’ — taking the law into their own hands.”

Two innocent people have already been shot, and a third one shot at — and that’s just by the highly-trained cops.

97 Jeff February 9, 2013 at 6:54 AM

Lol at all the gun grabbers personal attacks on me.

Fact is that my mothers life, my fathers life, my sisters life, and my life have all been saved at seperate times by the presentation of a firearm in a life and death situation. Scoff all you want but your judgements of me mean nothing.

As for facts. 4109 per day didnt come from Lott, it came from the DOJ.

Who is going to pay for the “new” gun laws you all want in place (or should i say duplicative laws)? You cant even enforce those on the books!

Keep spending money till we are broke- and then you will realize just how important the right to self defense is. When society breaks down and the government starts to erode your other rights, it will be too late for remorse.

And yes – the new gun laws would outlaw firearms that i own, which would make me a criminal for no other reason than ownership. Yet i have committed no crime. Does innocent until proven guilty no longer exist?

Regulation does not stop crime – and its only morons that believe it can. Even the bible speaks of an eye for an eye. Equal and opposite force is more likely to stop a crime when punishment is rarely enforced.

98 commoncents February 9, 2013 at 8:48 AM

@Jeff D – you’ve been reading too much Newsmax – take a chill pill.

99 Jeff February 9, 2013 at 8:59 AM

Mtz Man, I bet if those well-armed citizens felt threatened by this guy coming into their house, the cops wouldn’t be needed to end this.

They aren’t going to find him in Big Bear anyways. The guy’s created a diversion. Anyone with half a brain (LAPD, are you listening?) knows that…

100 Jeff February 9, 2013 at 9:01 AM

Responsible people shouldn’t have to give up SH*T because you irresponsible types can’t handle life.

Your perfect utopia does not exist. Evil does. Only way to combat evil is to have the ability to fight back.

Does no one understand history these days? Or perhaps it’s been pushed out of schools so we can talk about diversity and “common good”…..

101 Jeff February 9, 2013 at 9:11 AM

Mtz Man said “With all due respect, you would be a perfect example of that kind of necessity.”

Really? And just what do you base that assumption on, sir? Your own beliefs?

I love how judgmental you are – it serves to prove my point about your elitist attitudes. Holier than thou, are you? Have you walked a mile in my shoes, or are you here to bully – which by the way is typical democrat style. Is this the cultural shift you refer to?

I can keep up the responses all day. I will eat you alive with fact after fact after fact. As will Dennis, Howard, and several others. You have NO business stepping on my rights, as I have no business stepping on yours. However, just remember, when the 2nd goes, the 1st will follow.

102 Jeff February 9, 2013 at 9:13 AM

Contradictory much, Mtzman?

“Two innocent people have already been shot, and a third one shot at — and that’s just by the highly-trained cops.”

So tell me your story about how you plan to ban ALL guns, and then tell me that our government isn’t trying to take away my rights – since you obviously don’t believe that even law enforcement should have them.

????

103 @Jeff February 9, 2013 at 9:13 AM

You need to ask youself WTH am I doing to put myself and family in life and death situations where I need a gun. There is something wrong with your actions and activites

104 Jeff February 9, 2013 at 9:15 AM

And back to Jess.

No one said that gun laws aren’t useful. ENFORCEMENT of gun laws is what MAKES them useful, however – a critical point that Democrats seem to overlook.

Gun laws, just like armed citizens, are a DETERRENT. Since we obviously can’t STOP crime, it makes sense to have as much deterrence in place as possible.

Criminals don’t go through background checks, by the way. Never have, never will. Only thing you regulate is those that abide by the law in the first place!

105 Jeff February 9, 2013 at 9:27 AM

Now for #79

Really? I’m a jerk, because I’ve had a convicted murderer break in my house, a domestic violence victim run to my front door beaten to a pulp (with the suspect in close proximity), caught two escaped felons trying to break in my house, a guy with road rage pull a knife and try to stab me….These are MY experiences, NONE of which was initiated by me.

I can continue, but you aren’t worth my time.

If believing in what this country was founded on (our Constitutional rights) makes me a jerk, then feel free to label me. Otherwise, shut your pie hole.

106 Jeff February 9, 2013 at 9:37 AM

CommonCents, please – you of all people should know better. I listen to ALL news media, but do my own research.

I don’t need media, nor government, nor you to tell me how to best run my life.

107 Jeff February 9, 2013 at 9:41 AM

LOL #103

Crime has come to me, not the other way around. I don’t go looking for trouble, pal.

How DARE you assume that I am the problem. Screw you.

108 Jess February 9, 2013 at 10:35 AM

I’m still in search of a reliable reference that supports your claim of such a high number of defensive gun uses. You mentioned the Department of Justice, so I went in search of their number. The first DOJ reference I found explained why the claims of the high numbers of defensive gun uses are total bullshit. Scroll down to page 8 and read their explanation.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

109 mtzman February 9, 2013 at 11:10 AM

@ Jeff, once again, you nailed it, dude. Your last series of posts confirmed all the things that I said about you and the gun huggers.

110 Jeff February 10, 2013 at 2:13 AM

M

111 TinFoiler February 10, 2013 at 9:21 AM

I don’t believe that this (LAPD) event is real at all with all of the fake events that have passed. This event is dividing the people from the cops / military. Look at the language used. It’s clear that is whats being done. If they pull it off it makes the troops more willing to kick in doors and drag Patriots to the camps. They are also bringing attention to Conspiracy theorists who are the people who know whats going on so that people will be willing to turn them in so that they can also be taken to the camps. It’s all very obvious to anyone paying attention. Turn off CNN Propaganda and wake up!!!

112 Jeff February 10, 2013 at 9:24 AM

oops on last post.

MtzMan, you’ve confirmed it – because of your anti-american stance on our rights, you’re no better than a terrorist. Someone go arrest this traitor!!!

Touche, mofo.

113 Jeff February 10, 2013 at 9:25 AM

Jess, check uniform crime reports against the dates that carry-concealed laws were enacted. Also check department of justice statistics, and realize – MOST DEFENSIVE USES DO NOT GET REPORTED. Those that do only equal a fraction of what happens in real life. I can provide you post after post if you’d like of defensive gun uses, at least until you surrender to the truth.

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