Measure Q Fails in Contra Costa County – Fire Station Closures Set to Move Forward

November 7, 2012 5:35 am · 172 comments

Measure Q, the parcel tax measure that was created to help save local Contra Costa County fire stations from closing due to the budget crisis, failed to get the 2/3rds required vote to pass.

The measure received about 50% of the vote.

ConFIRE Chief Daryl Louder previously told that between 8-10 fire stations throughout the county would be shut down if the measure failed to pass.

Although the fire stations in question haven’t been named, it’s rumored that station 22 in Concord’s Crystyl Ranch neighborhood would be closed.

101 Ginny T. November 7, 2012 at 2:11 PM

People please! My dad is a retired fire fighter and does’nt make the money you say. Those people making the big money are Chief officers which are a different union. They took some cuts also but not like line personnel. The main chief officers that caused this whole mess are from San Ramon and Orinda/Moraga, two different departments. Con fire line personnel along with the chiefs pay 25% of their salary towards their retirement. When they take away 11% off the top that they put in, the county will have to reimburse them. That is going to add up. If you put in 27 years and retire you will use the money that you contributed for almost 18 years before any county money is spent. So when you say, “the fire fighters will say if measure Q would have passed we would have been here sooner” thats crap. They wont say a word about it unless there asked and then you will get the truth. Remember who put all this into effect, the elected officials. Now watch in the next few months those same officials will make the fire fighters out as the bad guys to save face. Ask the man you just reelected, DeSaulnier, He was a big push for this retirement. If he tells you otherwise hes lying. Ask the board of supervisors what percent of the budget goes to fire (6%) and the 51% that goes to the county hospital for free medical. Why doesnt everyone quit paying for medical ins. and just go to county? Thats between $500 and $650 a month saved. I see how beat up and broken my dad is and its heartbreaking.

102 Boots McGillicuddy November 7, 2012 at 2:12 PM

Dear Firefighters,

perhaps if you worked more than 2 days a week, perhaps if you actually worked instead of plating video games, or working out at the firehouse, perhaps if you made less than $150,000 a year for a high school grad, perhaps if you didn’t spike your pensions, perhaps if your pensions weren’t grossly over generous, perhaps if your retirement age was close to 60 instead of 50, perhaps if you weren’t suing the state to continue spikig, perhaps if our schools, parks, libraries and roads weren’t in such poor shape because you guys are taking all the money, perhaps if we weren’t taxed enough already, measure Q might have passed.

I’m not opposed to taxes, but when I pay them I expect to get value for money. Paying a guy $150,000 a year for a 2 day week and lettingh him retire at 50 on full pay and health, is not my idea of good value for the service provided. We have the best paid and benefitted fire fighters in the world here. When we have the best schools and teachers, then, and only then, will I ever consider taxking myself to pay more for firefighters.

103 Fireman B November 7, 2012 at 2:12 PM


Big thumbs up

104 Hero and Deserve November 7, 2012 at 2:13 PM

Oh my god BusBoy, that video was brilliant.

My favorite part:

Private sector guy: “Do you know what your pension is worth? You never could have saved that much money. You are stealing it from the taxpayers thanks to the corrupt politicians that your union bribed.”

Firefighter Hero: “So what. I’m hero and deserve.”

Private sector guy: ” F&#* you and your hero bu%&$it! I’m sick of being looted by you and your union thugs.”

Sounds better in robotic voice. Love that viddy!

105 Lois November 7, 2012 at 2:31 PM

How about if all of us who voted yes just went ahead and donated $ 75? If it was a 50 % yes, wouldn’t that be a significant amount of money?

106 Smokey November 7, 2012 at 2:47 PM

The measure failed. The taxpayer lost. Be safe out there.

107 Johnnie Ballgame November 7, 2012 at 2:50 PM

AWESOME! I cannot wait to insult unemployed firefighters. hahahahahaha.

108 A firefighter supporter November 7, 2012 at 2:53 PM

To all of you idiots saying anyone can do a FF Job ur damn ignorant. U need at least an AS or BA in fire tech, 6 months EMT training before 18 months paramedic training, 1 year volunteer time for FF1 certification, ambulance experience, fro and FRA hazmat, high angle low angle rescue, we have so much training it doesn’t stop. We are the elite. We are your heroes. YOU apparently are OUR downfall and the downfall on society. It takes something like 9/11 for you to appreciate us. And for the volunteer idea… Volunteers arent paramedics or trained adequately, volunteers aren’t going to push drugs into ur veins and save ur damn life. A McDonald’s worker can afford 75 a year you non-supporters make me sick

109 Horse'n Around November 7, 2012 at 3:12 PM

So 75 dollars a year is too much to pay. But people will wait in line and fight over a pair of 200 dollars tennis shoes. They will spend 200-400 dollars on a new i phone. Every day people spend 4-5 dollars on a cup of coffee. I suggest everyone learn CPR and First aid because their response time for CFD will increase to anywhere from 10-30 minutes depending on where you live. So YOU will have to depend on your own life saving measures for your self preservation…..GOOD LUCK!

110 aonoooo November 7, 2012 at 3:16 PM

@ A firefighter supporter #108 –
Sorry pal – there are thousands of returning military and ex-military with excellent fire fighting and EMT training. You haven’t even seen the HAZMAT stuff they are trained in.
Thanks a lot but you ain’t as special as you think.

111 aonoooo November 7, 2012 at 3:20 PM

I’m well insured. My house burns to the ground and I get a new one with everything updated. New landscaping, new clothes, new tools, new furnishings maybe even a new car.
A house is just somewhere to reside, and they’re everywhere.

112 Owen Carter November 7, 2012 at 3:31 PM

@ A firefighter supporter

Average annual salary for a US solder currently deployed in Afganistan is $27K. They are pretty trained too. Explain to me again why firefighters deserve more than $27K?

113 Horse'n Around November 7, 2012 at 3:37 PM

I still think that maybe those of us who are willing to pay more for Fire/Police services should be on record, and our response times should be faster then those who don’t pay.

114 Brad H November 7, 2012 at 3:41 PM

“We are the elite. We are your heroes.” Nice, number 108. That’s how you rally support. That is exactly how you do it. Fireman B must be shaking is head reading your post.

You realize that firefighting isn’t even one of the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the US. So you can save your hero crap. Heroes don’t have unions and pensions and overtime pay. Firefighters do a good, important job. So do a lot of us. Bottom line is we can’t afford to pay them what we are. If houses burn then they burn. That’s it. Done. Debate over. Let’s move on.

115 mortimer November 7, 2012 at 3:44 PM

You guys want to keep the firehouses open, keep you guys on the job. Don’t let the voters decide. Take the initiative, and go to your administrator’s office and DEMAND A PAY CUT.

116 Atticus Thraxx November 7, 2012 at 4:18 PM

Disappointing. Really thought this would pass. I truly don’t understand California. What a strange place to live. Thank God the sun shines a lot.

117 Owen Carter November 7, 2012 at 4:18 PM

@ A firefighter supporter

Average annual salary for a US solder currently deployed in Afganistan is $27K. They are pretty trained too. Explain to me again why firefighters deserve more than $27K?

118 Anon November 7, 2012 at 4:23 PM

Ginny T – “Those people making the big money are Chief officers which are a different union. ”

They are all firefighters, it’s their choice to have two unions and treat each other like crap. As a Taxpayer, I pay taxes already for their services. Seems like both Unions need to come together.

Public Employee Unions (the largest special interest groups in California) line the pockets of politicians to get what THEY want. When they couldn’t get cash raises, they went for higher and higher pension, retirements and benefits and got it. Now, the State, cities and taxpayers cannot afford it. This is the Union and the Politicians to fix, and not with threats to TAXPAYERS and measures to increase our taxes. Cut spending, it’s a novel idea.

119 Brian November 7, 2012 at 4:26 PM

The tax payers have spoken, and by vote decided what type of Fire Department they want. There are no hard feelings, there is no need for more insults or demeaning comments towards firefighters or the fire department. There are no “Threats” to close fire stations, it is simple economics, staffing must be reduced, and in turn fire stations must close. Pension reform has already passed at the state level and firefighters will now retire at age 57. Some commenters on here are so unhappy with themselves and their current jobs (or lack of jobs) that they must try to spread blatant lies about firefighters. Firefighters work 56 hours every week without additonal overtime. The food, cable, supplies are paid for out of the pockets of firefighters. Con Fire pays the highest employee pension contribution in the USA at 24 -27% of salary, depending on when the firefighter was hired. Con Fire currently has one of the lowest staffing to population ratios of any fire department in california. After the Board and Fire Chief decide which statins will close, the ISO will surely come in and rate the department on the ISO scale. Con Fire is currently an ISO 3. No one knows how far that rating will drop, but when the dust settles and the department is rated, the insurance companies will then assign an appropriate risk level to the community and insurance premiums will be set. None of these things I have stated are threats, but are facts of what the voters have decided. I will continue to pray for the firefighters and their families that none of their lives are lost and none of them suffer serious injury in trying to protect the community with inadequate staffing.

120 viton November 7, 2012 at 4:35 PM

I’m not one saying “anyone” can be a FF…or cop for that matter. But regardless of the requirements/hazards of the job, that is no basis with which to extort taxpayers to fund unsustainable pensions. I know, I know, we’ll hear about how FF’s contribute to their pension. Swell, then go to a defined-contribution model that doesn’t keep the taxpayer on the hook for the life of the FF…and their surviving spouse. But we know they would never go for that, seems to be a nice little safety net there having the taxpayer guarantee their retirement. Hmm, I seem to recall the Grand Jury a few years back that reporting that the unfunded retiree healthcare benefits for public employees of CCC is more than that of Alameda, San Mateo, Orange, Riverside, and San Diego counties. COMBINED.

Once you’re done being sick, perhaps you should petition your like-minded sycophants to pass the hat for your heroes, donate to your heart’s content.

121 jadedserf November 7, 2012 at 4:40 PM

Your linked clip reminds me that such positions are also rarely, if ever, staffed with women.

122 Hobo November 7, 2012 at 4:46 PM

Seriously who voted against this? The Grover Norquist people? Concord needs to get a brain.

123 Joe November 7, 2012 at 4:56 PM

@ Gjets, get a life, you can easily go hand in an application for this job tomorrow departments are hiring, then u can quit masterb$&@ting to the backdraft poster on your bedroom wall and actually see what we really do. To all the people that voted no things are gonna change and you are gonna get what you pay for. It’s pretty sad you can’t pay less than a paper a day or a latte a day to have fire stations. Some of you chose to have a desk job, some of us chose to become paramedics and firefighters, you all had the same choices. You get paid for what you do maybe a career change for some is in order. Have fun paying more for insurance than you would have for this measure. Ps this money was not going to pensions it goes to keeping stations open, and repair on fleet. It’s easy to hide behind a computer screen and talk sh$&@ why don’t you come to your local station and do a ride along and see what we get paid for.

124 GG November 7, 2012 at 5:46 PM

All the freakin’ whining. Bottom line: less fire personnel and less stations mean longer response to emergency situations and graver conditions because of that. People will eventually figure it out, when the shit hits the fan.

125 GG November 7, 2012 at 5:48 PM

@ #119 – Brian

Thank you.

126 A firefighter supporter November 7, 2012 at 5:57 PM

Exactly what Joe said. Oakland’s hiring apply and see if u have what it takes for this easy overpaid job we have.

127 Soccermomwithabrain November 7, 2012 at 5:59 PM

@Enough Already! – I agree. I voted “No” on Q. I also voted “No” on 30. Too bad Prop. 30 passed. I don’t know anyone who voted “Yes” on 30 but P.T. Barnam was correct.

128 Johnnie Ballgame November 7, 2012 at 6:02 PM

Every fire station can be fully staffed if every firefighter is paid minimum wage.

Let’s get it done!

129 Beaver November 7, 2012 at 6:33 PM

@Johnnie Ballgame – That’s fine, but then there would be nobody to rescue your ass when your mom’s house catches on fire. Guarantee that people don’t run into burning buildings for 8 bucks an hour. Johnnie your a jack wagon! Sorry that you couldn’t pass the psych test and get hired and be the hero you want to be.

130 True November 7, 2012 at 6:36 PM

I voted yes and was sorry to see it not pass. Wait you young peopel till you get over 60 our your parents do. I have had to call 911 on my mother in law ,my self and for my husband and when my brother died. I’m very great full for all fireman and police men. To me they could never be paid too much. Our lives depend on them many times. Some peopel I just don’t under stand.

131 Slugga November 7, 2012 at 6:37 PM

What a bunch of short sighted buffoons. Want small governments, low taxes, traditional values, and religion in the public square? Move to the Middle East!

132 Just me November 7, 2012 at 7:09 PM

It is sad reading this how many people that didn’t read he facts voted against it. Adding “cheaper vehicles” for medical calls sounds great….but who pays for be purchase? This isn’t the 70s TV show Emergecy people… “My station won’t close” if your station is 11, 6, 10 etc no they won’t close but they will have a bigger coverage area…,your home is on fire but they are at a medical….your burning house will pay the price as the next closest engine is sent. “4 FFs on a rig….”last I checked it was three which meets minimum standards set forth by the Gov’t.

Less backfill coverage….large fires like Piedmont Lumber, Marsh Creek grass fire, last summers fire by CVCHS; less engines from East County being sent to cover ConFire Central stations. SRVFD if I have read correctly will send 2 engines for station coverage into ConFire stations. I suggest people listen to the scanner and hear the medical calls: heat attacks, not breathing, not alert, child injured. Theses are not people who have the flu and a fever usually. I have used 911 once in my close to 40 yrs in Claycord…and was very thankful for be quick response to a teenager not breathing and pulled from a local pool. I am far from a union supporter but this impacts my family if/when we need fire or medical help someone saving $75 a year and my loved ones life is changed forever.

133 Anon November 7, 2012 at 7:38 PM

It’s sad when the public employees and politicians continually ignore what the the voters are saying. Reform and accountability. I support firefighters, however, there is no accountability with government or public employee unions. I am to the point, if it’s a tax, it’s no until there is true reform throughout government, which includes the public employee unions since they are paid with taxpayer money.

134 Larry November 7, 2012 at 8:03 PM

Swell,4 more years with a crap president,and less fire-fighters.were screwed.

135 anon November 7, 2012 at 8:18 PM

dam, I voted for this and am MOST CONCERNED with any fire station closing after all of the fires this year in Contra Costa County; they need to cut back elsewhere.

136 Fred P. November 7, 2012 at 8:28 PM

@LocalGirl – I stand by my post, and that was based on MY personal experience. Don’t claim YOUR knowledge is “better” than mine.

You claimed they risked their lives on a DAILY basis – I called you out on it.

I’m not claiming ANYTHING about my work. I was in one of the lowest-paying agencies in California, yet I didn’t bitch and whine about the pay….

I didn’t say they were not exposed to “ANYTHING” – re-read my post. And how many firefighters or other first responders have seen incidents such as 9/11?

Multiple studies have shown that firefighters and cops are NOT in the top 10 most dangerous jobs….probably not even the top 20. So don’t get off on telling me about “dangerous.” I’ve SEEN it.

Given that, leave the sour grapes at home. Put on your big girl panties and stop whining. The people have spoken. You don’t like my opinion? Then don’t read my post.

137 JustMe November 7, 2012 at 8:42 PM

This was a hard sell at this point in time. We’re still in recovery. We have among the highest rates in the nation for gas at Shell and Valero at the bottom of Kirker Pass. Why Valero is matching Shell, I’ll never understand, but each has lost me as a customer. When it’s cheaper to buy gas in Walnut Creek or Pittsburg, than in Concord, then something is wrong. It irks me that I see the refinery from my house, and yet I could buy gas cheaper in Hawaii, an island, than here in Concord.

Anyway, less pocket money makes me not want to support anything that increases our taxes for the area. We already pay a lot. It costs a lot to live here. All my neighbors seem to be sharing their houses with others, I’m assuming to help covers costs.

I think in the long run, we have to find another way to have a fire department and make it work. If it doesn’t work at the current cost structure, then we’re going to have to adapt and change.

138 BusBoy November 7, 2012 at 8:57 PM

Here are some numbers from the CCFPD themselves.

As people here have said before. I think its time for the CCFPD to revamp their model for responding to EMS/Medical issues. Rather than roll a rig that might miss out on a structure fire. Send a different vehicle better suited for responses such as those EMS ones. Itll get through traffic easier and be on scene faster.

139 B November 7, 2012 at 8:57 PM

Bottom line. If you call 911 for a ” medical emergency ” an ambulance will come to your house and take you to the hospital. That won’t change.

140 Management Problems ? November 7, 2012 at 9:33 PM

Management of any organization includes controlling employee cost not the least of which is controlling overtime cost.
single employee overtime $161,642 in 2011
single employee overtime $132,421 in 2011
single employee overtime $107,334 in 2011
single employee overtime $106,945 in 2011
single employee overtime $101,252 in 2011
single employee overtime $101,102 in 2011
single employee overtime $100,373 in 2011

141 Gjets November 7, 2012 at 10:51 PM

If the FF dont’ like they can quit and get a real job, i bet they won’t quit. To much money is wasted on Public Safety in CCC like Fire, Police, Probation ,Sheriff ETC. the money should be going to Education. To much pork and obese public employees in CCC

142 Don P November 7, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Oh darn. Now the firehouse wont be able to send out an engine with full crew and block off the entire street because of a medical call for some kid who had a peanut allergy reaction. CAN SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!

143 @92 Fireman B November 8, 2012 at 12:10 AM

Shut up and go buy yourself something nice.

144 Mikey November 8, 2012 at 2:39 AM

Ok so the reason why an engine (or sometimes a truck) respond to medical emergencies with the ambulance is because they need to make sure all resources are there to take care of the patient. Sometimes the dispatch information can be wrong. A full arrest call u need at least 4 people on scene. Sometimes they get calls where its a 400lb. patient on scene. They need to prepare for the worst on scene.

145 Chupacabra November 8, 2012 at 6:40 AM

The school my kids go to SUCK every single day. I hit the same pothole at the end of my street every single day. I want my tax dollars fixing those things. If in the 10,000/1 chance my house catches fire and the response time is a little longer, I can live with that.

You have your budget fire fighters, if you want to keep the houses open make some cuts in personnel costs,

146 Anon November 8, 2012 at 6:45 AM

I feel like the statute of limitations has run out for suburban firefighters hitching their wagons to the the NYFD heroes and 9/11.

You’ll need to find another talking point to hold the public hostage.

147 B. Willson November 8, 2012 at 6:54 AM

1. Eat until you’re tired…
2. Sleep until you’re hungry…
3. See #1…

148 MO November 8, 2012 at 7:21 AM

You no voters probably can afford to buy a Starbucks coffee on your way to work … 1700 calories in those fancy concoctions …. fattening you up like a little pig. Thus making you more likely to have a heart attack. When your chest hurts and you call 911 and no one comes in time, remember how you voted and how expensive that coffee was as opposed to paying a tax for your Local FD.
Foolish analogy…I suppose.

Living rurally as I live, makes FD’s very important. My FD is a Volunteer Unit…the station is too far for them to get here for a house fire…but I give them my $60 bucks every year…for other things…grass and woods fires, and maybe to help me if I’ve fallen …. etc etc. I have also donated a large pond here by the house…where they have placed a snorkel so they can pump out water into their trucks, for my house or the houses up the road.
My Firemen make $12 a fire…they have to leave their jobs and try to get here in time. IMHO they are heroes and I’ll pay more when they ask for more.
I agree on ”no new taxes”….but the tax to pay for Police and Fire and Ambulance is a matter of Public Safety and your possible life and death…to have voted no on this is foolish, and it’s obvious you have your priories all mixed up.

149 BusBoy November 8, 2012 at 7:52 AM

@Mikey #144

All resources?? What resources can an engine hold that a typical EMS/Ambulance cant? Save your breath Ill tell you. None.

Sometimes the dispatch info can be wrong? WTH does that have to do with what kind of medical issue is at hand. Any personel arriving will begin asking questions as they should rather than going right to work relaying on dispatches as gospel. Again this is about “what” to roll… not “who” to send really.

Why can a EMS/Ambulance crew handle a full arrest with 2 people and you folks cant? If 2 EMS people can heft a fatty into the ambulance then 2 FF damn well better.

FF are dispatched because of superior response time to my knowledge. They get there and begin work… then the ems/ambulance crew arrives to take over.

Im saying the argument that FF give that a house could burn down while they are on a medical call with an engine is lame and a non starter in my book. Stop sending the engine… send a different smaller, faster, more nimble vehicle.

150 Beaver November 8, 2012 at 7:55 AM

@anon.- Sorry that you feel that you are being held hostage. The fireifighters have no say on staffing, deploymnent, stationss closing or not. All of those decisions are made by the Fire Chief and/or Board of Supervisors. No fireifghters would agree with your self serving statement that firefighters are “hitching their wagons” to 911. You are abviosuly ignorant to the loss of lifeand injuries that Firefighters here in contra costa have suffered. Google actually has a map:
Instead of showing some respect that have suffered loss of life in service to the public you choose to spit on their graves! Please visit the memorial wall at the training center on Treat Blvd. at the Training Grounds and see the list of Firefighters in this county that have paid the ultimate sacrafice.

151 Scott Millies November 8, 2012 at 7:56 AM

Need a chuckle?? – Warning Language Alert!!

If you’re a firefighter fanboi dont watch this…

152 Pants on Fire November 8, 2012 at 7:56 AM

Fools 52% voted in favor that’s a majority. Unfortunately the minority has convinced everyone that it should take 2/3 to put this into effect. Hopefully the demos who have a super majority will change it to 50% +1 and we can revisit this and get it passed. I hope the unions and state legislature makes this happen. 2/3 never works as a small minority can hold the rest host and deny the good benefit of the majority.

153 Seal November 8, 2012 at 8:12 AM

I have to agree with Anon on this one.

154 LocalGirl November 8, 2012 at 8:17 AM

@Fred P. — whatev … you go on living your life angry, disgruntled life and I’ll go on living mine – happily – while thoroughly appreciating and respecting the emergency response personnel in my community and beyond.

155 Pete November 8, 2012 at 8:43 AM

Can you also direct me to the memorial for the highway workers in our area that have been killed on the job? And while you’re at it, also please advise locations of memorials for refinery workers, structural steel workers, power line workers, and farmers. Thanks.

156 Starfish November 8, 2012 at 8:51 AM

Yes–“appreciating and respecting” those are damn good words!

157 Fred P. November 8, 2012 at 8:52 AM


Not angry, not disgruntled. I’m happy that it didn’t pass. Sorry to disappoint you.

Just remember that the voters have spoken – so deal with it. Living your life “happily”? Then stop complaining that it didn’t pass.

158 Mark November 8, 2012 at 9:02 AM

I really like it; I did vote against, they are killing our city with those outrages salaries and pensions, on top of that they work OT like crazy, I know lots of them and they keep telling me just in OT they can make over $100,000.and they basically limited the openings for new comers, if we can prevent them to work OT and the new comers make less money nothing of this will it happens.
If you ask any of them to reveal the real income do you think they will tell you the real number, of course they won’t tell you. Let’s get over it, is a big lesson to learn, open the gates and let new comers to join the force and less money you will see better results

159 Owen Carter November 8, 2012 at 9:06 AM

Average annual salary for a US solder currently deployed in Afganistan is $27K. Explain to me again why firefighters deserve more than $27K?

160 Pete November 8, 2012 at 9:38 AM

What is with the firefighter fanboi/sycophants who constantly use Starbuck’s as their litmus test of how much more we should be willing to have confiscated in taxes? I’ve never been to a Starbuck’s in my life and I still voted NO, how does that grab ya?

And I see claims that ConFire personnel contribute 26% of their salary to their pensions…I’ve never seen this as fact, but I’ll take their word for it. But correct if I’m wrong, weren’t their larger raises given at one point, larger in the sense that it was a few pct point higher than what was “normal”, and this was done in order to offset their increased pension contribution rate? And what is the EMPLOYER contribution rate? I’ve seen/heard numbers ranging from 40.8% to 50%…as in FIFTY PERCENT, i.e. HALF of your salary the employer (read: taxpayer) is contributing towards YOUR pension…is that correct? Wow. Find me any private sector employer who gives more than a 6% match on a 401K, REGARDLESS of whether the employee is contributing >6%.

161 I love our troops November 8, 2012 at 9:41 AM

Will you work for $27K ?
Our soldiers deserve more.
Our firefighters do not deserve less.

162 Pete November 8, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Okay, here’s where the 40.8% employer contribution rate came from…so this means we, the employer, the taxypayer, ARE paying 40.8% of each firefighter’s salary towards their pension, right? Is that base pay, or does it include OT?

And about OT…when firefighters are on a what, 48-hr shift, is there OT included in that, or is that “norma” shift all on straight time, and OT is for anything over that 48 hrs?

163 Pete November 8, 2012 at 9:47 AM

oops, forgot this…notice use of the word “unsustainable”.

The employer
pension rates for FY 2012‐13 continue to increase at an unsustainable rate – from 32.3% in FY
2011‐12 to 40.8% in FY 2012‐13 for Safety Tier A.

164 Dan Hinshaw November 8, 2012 at 12:47 PM

Don’t complain when a neighbors house catches fire and then starts yours on fire. This is a very realistic possibility. If someone I intentionally starts their or a vacant structure next to yours on fire there is a good possibility that it will start homes on either or both sides on fire. A fire engine with on three firefighters on it have to protect structures on fire before they go inside the original house to extinguish or search. Three firefighters are not enough to do all so there’s a good chance additional homes could burn also. Good luck to those in this fire district.

165 Owen Carter November 8, 2012 at 1:37 PM

@Dan Hinshaw

No one is saying firefighters aren’t needed. We’re saying we’re no longer willing to subsidize their ridiculously bloated salaries, pensions and job security. They need to be laid off and re-hired at a fraction of what they currently make. Their narcissistic arguments (our jobs are dangerous, we’re trained, we’re special, we’re entitled) no longer hold water. Their extortion tactics (either continue paying us or you will suffer) no longer work.
They need to start living in the real world and being held accountable to the same realities as those who pay their salaries, those in the private sector where open/free market economics force efficiencies and drive down costs, or, you go out of business and get laid off.
If they and their unions can’t rectify the problem themselves, they need to be privatized.

166 Beaver November 8, 2012 at 3:30 PM

@ Owen -Glad your opinion means nothing. Free market economics are at work, because people are leaving Con Fire for higher paid departments that pay less for their pensions. Owen, I understand that you have tried to get hired and unfortunately failed the test, but please. Keep your gurney jockey transport job and be happy with what you make there.

167 Scott M November 8, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Very nicely put Beaver, a women of not just class but intelligence too! Something tells me you might be a firefighter? A second grader could have come up with a cleverer response. Aim high!

168 Wally November 8, 2012 at 7:34 PM

Your retort to Owen is found to be severely lacking. You might want to get a whole lot smarter before you try again.

169 GG November 8, 2012 at 8:48 PM

Just waiting for the next crisis that hits the area…then Public Safety will be “heroes” to every single whiner on here. It is actually very funny to read how those that voted no think they are teaching Public Safety a lesson. More than likely there will be no lay-offs as many fire employees will be exiting the service before the end of the year before the new reform takes place Jan 1st. The attrition will make up for the closures. As for “reforming” existing pensions, can’t do that as the California Supreme Court has stated that those pensions are promised and cannot be revoked. The formula for the new hires has been adjusted by age and percentage, so folks get as whiny as you want, it ain’t gonna change anymore than that – except to lessen the service side for you.

170 Fred P. November 8, 2012 at 9:10 PM

If – if – if – if…..

You can ‘t pay for EVERY possibility….. although some people like to think that’s what gov’t is for.

171 @ GG November 8, 2012 at 9:26 PM

#169 –
Gee buddy I hate to burst your bubble BUT as we have seen EVERYTHING can be changed or eliminated with the stroke of a pen.
Maybe you should start thinking about making some concessions.

172 GG November 10, 2012 at 2:02 PM


Maybe you should learn a few things before making ASSumptions.
I’m not Public Safety or a County Employee. The California State Supreme Court has already ruled on the pensions as being irrevocable. (Big word Iknow, it means “can’t change”) So genius, not everything can be changed. In the meantime, less facilities and employees, less service. Go take an Advanced First Aid course and buy a big garden hose.

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